S2 E2: OTTB Aftercare Spotlight: Pastured Place with Special Guest Ali Rawles

S2E2: OTTB Aftercare Spotlight: Pastured Place with Ali Rawles
[00:00:00] Sure. Hi, everyone. And welcome back to OTTB OnTap.
I'm Niamh. And I'm Emily. Hey, Niamh. What's on tap today? Today, we're learning about an incredible aftercare initiative called Pastured Place. It's a 501c3 based in Southeastern Pennsylvania dedicated to the retirement of OTTBs. They specialize in rehab and retraining and offer rehoming of thoroughbreds for second careers.
We're so happy to have Allie Rawls on with us today. Allie boards and manages the Pastured Place Adoptable Horses out of Meadowspring Farm in Oxford, PA. Welcome, Allie! Hi guys, thanks for having me. Ellie, thank you so much for joining us. Can you give us some background information about yourself and how you got involved with Off The Track Thoroughbreds?
So I got my first Off Track Thoroughbred off a truck headed to New Holland when I was 14. Oh wow. And she took a green kid. Up the levels of eventing all the way to intermediate. Wow. And I had her until she was 30. We might have to have you back to talk about that story. So I had her till she was 30 and she was slightly crazy.
But you know what? That's probably the only reason we made it as far as we did. I'm surprised I survived. Ignorance is bliss, so she developed my love for thoroughbreds. That was where it really started. I enjoyed racing even as a kid. Wasn't super into it, but enjoyed it.
And so then from there, I developed a love for eventing and decided that I wanted to ride horses for a living. I worked for some different local event riders and decided also that The only way I was going to be able to do this is to figure out my niche. I didn't have the money to be an upper level event rider, and so I convinced my poor parents to help me purchase Meadowspring Farm when I was 22, and so we bought the farm, and I knew I needed to have a way to pay for it, so I got into racing, because there just isn't any money in show horses, not like there is in racing.
So I got into racing and that was going to be my thing. And I started working for Michael Dickinson and worked for him for a while and then moved on was an exercise writer and then an assistant. And then I moved on and worked for Graham motion for a while, did both exercise writing and assistant for Graham, freelanced at fair Hill for quite a few years, and then took out my trainer's license.
And I have been training for nine years now. Just small scale, mostly my own horses that, just to have fun, and a few select owners. And so OTTBs are obviously close to my heart because I'm involved in racing as well as my first horse having been one. So that is where I come from as my background.
Wow. I have to just say that I now feel a little sheepish talking to you. You have such an incredible background. And did you also, you were in Pony Club and did you also receive your A rating in Pony Club? Did I read that correctly? Yep. I am a graduate A Pony Clubber. So I did that too.
I decided to go all in with the horse thing. I don't, I'm one of those people. I don't like to do things halfway. Emily and I were just talking about that in our last episode. We're like, we don't do anything a little bit. We just with no real reason or backing up of our projects that we get into, it's just let's just do it.
Let's just see what happens. Yep. That's kind of me. I go for broke. Can I just ask you a side question to follow up on that, but how do you feel like your involvement in the race industry has helped you navigate the waters of the aftercare world? It's funny, because in some ways it helps, and in some ways it hurts or hinders it, I think.
I think it helps in that I really understand thoroughbreds, I understand where they're coming from, and, what they need to transition well into their second career. I think that, having trained them, ridden them, I've broken yearlings for the track. Obviously I've been an exercise rider for years and years.
I still get on six to eight a day at the track in the mornings. I love it. Gallop, breeze, gate work. I rode a few amateur races in the steeplechasing side of it, some amateur flat races. So I really understand the thoroughbred. I understand where they're coming from, how to transition them. I think where it hinders me is I have a bigger frustration with the show horse world and their attitude towards off track thoroughbreds.
And also towards a lot of racetrack injuries, because no horse is perfect. And you can have a perfect set of x rays and that horse will not be separate. Or you can have horses that have train wreck x rays. Example, that horse I told you I got at 14 and made it all the way to intermediate. God only knows how.
But she had ring bones, side bone, a chip in a knee. She had arthritis in her hocks. Her x rays were a train wreck. She didn't care. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing bothered her. Niamher took a lame step in her life until she was like 28 years old. And for me, horses coming off the track with things that I know aren't going to be an issue.
They should not have any significant risk of being unsound that is increased from those beyond any normal horse you're gonna buy. Even your warmbloods or quarter horses or anything else. But you see all the In Search of ads and there, no previous injuries, no, no maintenance. And let's be honest, there is no horse that is no maintenance.
If somebody has one, that'd be great, but I've Niamher seen one. . Let's clone that one if it exists, but I'm sure it doesn't. For sure. Because I've Niamher had one myself. So I think there are good things and how much I understand of the [00:06:00] racing industry. And there are hard things too.
Another hard thing for me is, you see the post Oh, I had to let my horse down from the track and, they have to come down off all of the medications or this or that at the end of the day, our restrictions on medications are so much tougher than the show world, even at the FBI level.
And that's a thing of the past now. I feel like we were talking about that in a very early episode where people don't really even go through that process anymore because of all the regulations that have taken place, at least in the last 10 or 15 years, I've been involved in racing in almost 20 years.
It's made a lot of changes, but even what we were allowed to give 20 years ago, isn't as excessive as people seem to think. Racing has this reputation of, Oh, the horses are all high. And they're this and they're that. No, they spend, 22 hours a day in a stall. They get lots of really high quality grain and hay and they're as fit as they're ever going to be.
And they're young and they feel great. They're not high on anything but life. Yeah. Alyssa Pitt talked a lot about that. I'm not saying you don't have your occasional bad egg, but in general, and racing is so regulated even now, especially with high stuff. So , it's not an issue.
Saying that, Oh, I think this horse had this or that it's highly unlikely, at least not from a racing person. There's certainly a big difference between what's going on with them from a metabolic level to what's going on with them just from a muscular chur. And it's a dynamic personality level, emotional level.
And I think that people try to blur the lines of those things a lot. And I think that's not great. Yes, for sure. For sure. There are a lot of advantages to how much I understand about the Thoroughbred and all of the stages from birth, I've bred them, through breaking them, through training them, through rehabbing them, and then on to second careers, but like I said, there's also the side of me that almost knows too much.
Yeah, I was gonna say that, but maybe you know too much. Oh gosh, I I've just thought of 50 questions I could ask you about all of these topics, but we're going to have to save it for another episode. I think we can do another one. I know. I would love to pick your brain even more. But let's talk about the roots of pastured place.
Okay, what would you say is the backbone of the organization? So the backbone of the organization is the hockey. So the Hawheys founded their racing stable, P. T. K., in 1999. P. T. K. stands for Paula, Tom, and Caitlin. Paula was the mother, Tom the father, Caitlin the daughter. Paula passed away a few years ago, and P.
T. K., as a racing stable, was always extremely involved in aftercare, even prior to the Hawheys deciding to branch out and found Pastured Place. So they always did a ton of their own aftercare when they founded in 1999, their motto was once loved, always loved any horse that was, let me go.
You're like, we're on. Candid camera. Yeah. It's funny how they know when they start chiming in. Is one of them maybe a hound? Could be. Sounded a little bit hound y. A little hound y.
Sorry, they're Great Danes, so they don't bark quietly. No worries. We were guessing. We thought maybe hounds, but. No, Great Danes. That's what they are. So when, when PTA was founded, they had their once loved, always loved any horse that had ever been theirs at any point, whether it was a yearling that they had bred and sold, Whether it was a horse they claimed and had for one race,, every horse they had ever had any involvement with had a home for life.
So that was their mission when they started PTK and, it was very much Paula's desire to be sure that all of their horses always got what they needed. So then back in 2022, Caitlin and Tom decided. In Paula's memory to found pastured place. So now we have pastured place where all of their first, all of the PTK horses, when they retire can shift to pastured place for their secondary, aftercare and moving on to another career.
And then we also take outside horses that need homes. So it's very, Much kind of a labor of love, and their passion and devotion to horses as a whole, and theirs especially. So the Hawheaths are the ones that are the true backbone of Pastured Plays. So I am shocked that Pastured Place was only founded two years ago or perhaps less than two years ago.
And , the incredible work that you have done in that short amount of time. And so since starting, how many OTTBs has Pastured Place helped to rehome and retire? So we've, so we have total in, in house horses in pasture place. We have 128, 52 of those are permanent residence sanctuary.
We had in 2023, we had 23 intakes and 10 adoptions. And in 2024, we have so far had 18 intakes and 10 adoptions. Our biggest thing is. We try to go quality over quantity. We are trying to find them for Hever homes. We're not trying to have these sources get flipped. We're not trying to. Make it harder to keep track of them because we want to be able to keep track of them for the rest of their lives.
They always, again, have a home back with us should anything happen. We really focus on that kind of quality over quantity mindset with this and trying [00:12:00] to really properly develop the horses and bring them along so that they can hopefully get lifelong homes and be productive citizens. And we have a bunch at my farm.
Most of the ones at my farm and Oxford PA are adoptable all different levels of adoptable from trail horse limited type horses, all the way up to upper level prospects. And then we also have a sanctuary farm based in West river, Maryland. That's run by Lindy Clark. And then she does a bunch for pastured place as well.
And then the administrative part of it is based in Charlottesville, Virginia. Okay. Yeah, we so we're a little bit of a spread out. Yeah, we know Lindy quite well and before pasture place was, fully formed, we had experience with getting horses from PTK racing and retraining them onto second careers.
And she's just a lovely individual to work with. And that was our first little glimpse into how that racing group and just as a whole umbrella of people involved there really cared about their horses. Where they were so thoughtful about every single horse that came through the program. It was really fascinating because I think it was during a time You weren't really seeing that activity as much in the mainstream.
And I think it definitely stood out to Emily and I at the time. And so when we found out that they had actually created this 501C3, we were so excited for everybody that was involved with them as a whole. Yeah. I've done, I've worked with PTK and the Hawheys since 2007. Wow. So I did layups for them when they were based in Maryland.
And I even kept doing. Some layups for them when they were based in Kentucky. And then back in 2017, they asked me to start working with their retirees. So I started doing my current job for them in 2017, but they just didn't have it under the not for profit yet. They were just, Funding it themselves and doing mostly their horses, but we took some outside horses, even back then.
And then, like I said, it had been Paula's dream to do this. So in her memory, Caitlin got very involved in the idea of doing the not for profit. And so she went forward with pastured place and wanting to make sure every horse had a place to call home. She actually has, she had a mission statement that was A mix of our mission statement for pastured place and then also some about her mother if you would like I can yeah That'd be great Then you've got the info It says my mom paula the p and ptk passed away in 2020 and dad and I founded pastured place in her memory When mom started ptk She did so with the intent that every horse that carried her silks would have a home for with her for life if needed That mission quickly expanded to all thoroughbreds as mom's generosity knew no bounds and her heart was probably too big for her own good You If you needed a wrong righted, a checkbook balanced, a horse rescued, a gift wrapped, a wish granted, a party thrown, or a trip planned, you could do no better than to have Paula in your corner.
She touched countless lives, human and animal alike, with her special brand of magic. We hope Pastured Place will be a worthy tribute to that magic. And to mom's enduring belief that every horse has value, a spirit, and is deserving of a pastured place to call home. Oh, that's so sweet. And the pastured place comes from the poem.
I don't know if you've No, I don't, I didn't know where it came from. I was curious about that, actually. . So it's a Stanley Harrison poem. Okay. And it's one that goes somewhere in time's own space, there must be some sweet pastured place where creeks sing on and tall trees grow, some paradise where horses go.
For by the love that guides my pen, I know great horses live again. Oh, that's so good. I know. Cause our, our logo says pasture place and underneath it says where horses go, which also comes from some paradise where horses go. Oh, I love that. That's so sweet. I didn't expect for this episode to make me so emotional, but here we are.
Usually stuff like this comes from some sort of emotional place. Yeah, no, and it's just really special because we do have somewhat of a personal connection to you guys. And then . I'm friends with a a lot of trainers that have partnered with Pastured Place and then we also had one of our RRP people , had a Pastured Place horse, which we'll get into in a little bit.
And so it's been really special for us as well, but leads me into, so you guys have horses out and other farms in and around this area for retraining. How do you connect with trainers and organizations like work to ride in order to get that retraining for these horses? So it started with two falls ago.
Now, Caitlin said to me, Hey, I'm thinking maybe we should try to really get our name out there and participate in RRP. Okay. I said, okay, sounds like a good plan. She said, I think maybe we should try to find some sponsored trainers and send horses to some different people and Establish ourselves, since nobody really knew who we were, and nobody knew who to, go to adopt from us and things like that.
, my farm and track assistant, Megan, put this really random post on Facebook, and it looked completely creepy, like a scam. It was something generic I think Chelsea might have said something about that ad being a little bit weird. It was really sketchy.
Everybody who responded to it said something like in search of trainers to take sponsored horses to RRP. And so I had a lot of response. So Megan limited it to people that were within three hours. Cause I needed people who were close enough that if I needed to go check on the horse or something else, it wasn't.
A two day journey. And from there, we had, I think, 25 that I wasn't on social media at this point in time. So 25 that made it through Megan's kind of filtering and got [00:18:00] given my phone number to contact me. So of the 25, I think 21 of them were event writers. Yeah. And it didn't really make sense to me to send, A bunch to rrp to get.
That's a given, but we've got to find something that these not event horse types can do and excel at. So I had one, Western trainer, which is the trainer you're talking about, Chelsea O'Brien. And I had a junior in Virginia that responded who wanted to do the hunters. So hunters and jumpers. So she was another good one.
Cause she wasn't an event rider and I did pick one event rider. And so we sent. We ended up sending four had intended to send four that year. And we sent two with the event rider we chose, and she was a young rider in New Jersey, and we wanted to stick to like young up and coming professionals, juniors, people who wouldn't necessarily have an opportunity to go to RRP without the sponsorship.
We weren't necessarily looking for professionals because, they're not the ones that are always going to be adopting our horses. We need to show that Hey, kids can ride them and train them. And, this young up and coming professional can do it. And so we ended up sending two horses to the event trainer.
She took one for show jumping and eventing and one for dressage. And then we sent the horse with Chelsea O'Brien for Western. And we sent the horse with the junior that did show hunters and show jumping. And we had a good first go. Chelsea's horse, unfortunately went lame while we were down there.
Warmed up beautifully. And we're not really sure what happened, but she went lame sometime between the morning when Chelsea did her warmup ride and he pulled her out to feed. So she didn't get to compete. She had to scratch. The dressage horse did well. He finished somewhere mid pack. The other horse that the event rider took did the same thing.
She, was very respectable. Finished somewhere mid pack in both of hers. And then the junior actually ended up finishing sixth in show jumping. And top 20 in the hunters, I think as well. So she did really well. So it was a good first experience, we didn't quite make finals, but positive, got her name out there.
Got seen a little bit and got it started. So then obviously I had a ton of people who had already applied. Plus I had spoken to Leslie. For last year about it for doing one for 23. And at that point, she wasn't really sure she could take a horse because they're redoing their farm in Philly and, building this big, fancy indoor and doing all this other stuff.
So she wasn't really sure it would work. So we decided to put it off a year and see where we were. Leslie, I know with the work to ride program. Just because obviously it's well known in the area and also having worked for Graham and Anita support it. So it was definitely something that was on my radar.
So this year when I approached her, she said, yeah, you know I think we can make it work. So she actually teamed up, worked to ride with another not for profit stable in Philly, which is Northwestern Stable. And so work to ride sent the polo kid and Northwestern stables sent the girl to do the jumpers and they teamed up and had a good time.
Did very respectably, both juniors, young trainers, 14 and 17, taking a horse and bringing it along. And so it was a big accomplishment. And the other connection funny enough to Anita and Graham is the horse that they chose was my animal. Oh, wow. So the whole way we pick trainers, honestly.
By win. Yeah. Whoever, falls into the right place at the right time for what we're looking to accomplish. Caitlin really felt passionately about sending Chelsea again since she didn't get to compete the first year. She didn't want to do a lot of repeat trainers. She wanted to try to give new people opportunities each year.
But she felt very passionately about getting Chelsea and other opportunities. So we sent Chelsea a horse again this year for it. I actually took a horse this year. I told Caitlin, I would do it. So I took one this year myself and pulled out some show clothes that haven't been on me in 13 years. It was a little odd, but we made it through.
And so we sent Chelsea with horse. We sent the work to ride horse. We have horses with Sydney Solomon, who's a five star event rider. She's had a couple for us for a while now, and she said she was interested. So we sent a young horse to her to take to our RP as well. And we had one more that was supposed to go with an adult amateur for fox hunting.
But unfortunately he had some issues right before they went out hunting and he got it. Attacked by ground beans and he got stung all up. That's a new one. She got dropped. Oh, geez. Yeah. Concussion. Yeah, it was really, it was a mess. And so she wasn't feeling a hundred percent. So it just wasn't, he was feeling a little PTSD from the ground beans.
Sure. She wasn't feeling a hundred percent. We decided best to just Yeah. But yeah like the trainers tend to be just depends. I think this year we'll probably keep things a little more in house. Caitlin would like me to do it again, so I guess I will be doing it again. Probably what I'll do this time is do it as a team thing with my assistant. I mentioned earlier, Megan Calaby, and then Chelsea is going to start being an ambassador for pastured place. And she will probably be taking another horse next year would be my guess. And then Sid Solomon is also an ambassador for pasture place and has horses for us on a regular basis.
I don't think she'll be taking one next year, but she will continue to have horses in a. Eventing capacity anyway, and from there I would say I have two trainers that I hired this year to help [00:24:00] with Working with the horses, obviously with the whole 128 and 52, we got a lot of horses and so the horses that, need to get ridden, I am one person with only so many hours in the day.
So this year I hired a couple of good professional upper level event riders to be the trainers for pastured place. And they're Kirsten Shatema and Amy Faison. Yeah. And I think you've interviewed Kirsten. Yeah. I sold Kirsten . Tango. Yeah. Tango.
Yeah. So. And so we've known Amy for a long time and it's just great to see her out and about all the time with the pasture place horses. Yeah, so we hired those guys and they've been great like they've made so much progress and they're very active on social media So they've really done a ton of sharing and really getting it out there and bringing in a lot of New people to the kind of mix and it's been great that way.
And they've, , done a ton with the horses, really gotten the horses out there showing so people are seeing them. And that's part of our goal is to produce quality horses, go out and show off what they can do. And they don't have to just be straight off the track, 2, 000.
We've put a handful of lines into them, , and we are in a position to put in the work and show them to the best of their ability. So that's the goal. So those guys have done great. I think probably, we might send a horse with each of them, something like that and just try to involve the whole team this coming year for pastured place. But yeah, so that's, that's our deal. Just right place at the right time. Yeah. I always get excited when I'm at local events, whether I'm riding or spectating, hearing the announcement of, the horse and rider and then the owner, and they always announce pasture place.
And it's just really cool. Especially when you see Amy and Kirsten out eventing, they're riding, five or six horses. They might have one or two of their own or client horses, and they've got four pasture place horses. And, I feel like every time you're hearing that name over and over again, you're like, what is this pastured place?
If you don't know, already know about it, you're like, wait a second. I know that rider. Who is this pastured place we're hearing about? So it's very cool because they're both so hardworking and, They both are just always getting out there and doing stuff, whether it's like a little dressage show or an event.
And I think that's awesome for you guys. It's been great. They're great with the social media and really getting it out there. Cause that's what we need to do. Pretty much everybody knows new vocations, turning for home and those types of organizations. They're going to look there first and totally understandable.
That's fine. But we want to get our name out there so that people think of us first on their list as well. And I've always thought that the idea of demoing in a way, I guess this isn't exactly demoing, but it's like a long term demo of what these horses can do is probably the most positive thing that you can do for these horses.
Cause I feel like sometimes with the aftercare. Organizations the horses are there and they've had some retraining, but they haven't had the level of exposure that these horses are getting through pastured place. Yeah. Like we have the advantage that all of the admin, the board, everybody of pastured place is a hundred percent volunteer.
So any money that comes in from adoptions, any money You know, that's donated, anything like that. It's a hundred percent goes to the horses. And then when we obviously don't have enough of that, the Hawheys back it up. It's amazing. So they make sure that we are able to do it and do it right. And that is a luxury and truly the not for profit business.
So we don't have to move them rapidly. Again, it's that quality over quantity. We're not. In a position where they have to move now. Yeah. And Emily and I talk about this a lot. We've probably, you could probably have a drinking game at this point built around it, how many times we've said this, but we're just really big believers in like with off the track thoroughbreds, if you can create value, they're safe.
And so whether that value is like you said, like a walking trail horse, that's. Just pretty much bomb proof, or it's a next upper level event horse. Anytime a horse has some kind of value, it's safer out in the world. And so we just love seeing that. And that's the thing is we have the luxury that we can do that.
We don't have to move them quickly. We're not reliant a hundred percent on donations to make sure every horse has what they need. And. Yeah. So it's definitely a challenge. I think the other thing with it is that it goes back to what we were talking about earlier with people are like, Oh, this horse can't have limitations or this horse can't have this or no previous injuries.
We've got horses out there doing tons of things. There aren't going to vet periods, but we're proving they can hold up to the job. Which I just love so much. They can do the job. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important because, unfortunately, so many of these aftercare organizations have to list them as low level versus.
Because they don't know. Because they can't prove. Yeah. That they can do the job. Most of the limitations we put on horses are ours. Yeah. Yeah. It was really refreshing. In Chelsea's interviews with us, how forthright she could really be about her horse's limit not necessarily limitations, but maybe his quirks or.
Or his issues. Yeah. Certain things about him without that fear of Oh no, now people are going to find out, like it, it's wonderful that you can be very upfront and transparent. And I think that's. Somewhat rare in it is and it's rare because They can't afford to be they Niamher move any of ya So it's a little bit like it's better than and I don't think they're lying to anybody most of the time It's just don't look don't find Because you will find something if you look hard enough And I think when you have that transparency from the racing connections through to the aftercare, I [00:30:00] think that's where it gets a little bit muddy in some of the other aftercare initiatives.
And this is not to fault them whatsoever, because they're just getting the information that they're getting. But, they're often getting them through, another program, or they're getting them from trainers who maybe the horse has been through. Trainers before that. And so it's a little bit of like telephone, right?
Are they forgetting that horse maybe had a slight like knee issue at one, and if it's a busy barn, it's so I think creating a little more security and that little telephone conversation is really nice with you guys, because you're starting at a good place and everyone's maintaining the same conversation versus, maybe some of those.
Statements and things are getting a little bit mixed up along the way. And that's again, not to fault any of these aftercare programs, but it's just, it's hard to guarantee what the trainer is telling you, is that really what, and so I think that definitely can make the process a little bit tougher for them.
It can. And like I said, unfortunately it's exciting. Expensive to do it right and they don't have the funds. That's not their fault. They need more support And that is also the goal with pastured place is let's make a model Let's have some of these big owners step up and try to do the same Yeah, and I think that a lot of the aftercare companies one, they're being run by a board of not necessarily all horse specific people.
And also too, I think they're very wary of shedding any negative or positive energy. Like revealing anything negative, about the horse. I, I understand why, because, it's like any of these buzzwords in the horse or aftercare industry, people just latch onto them and then they can't think of anything else.
But that hurts everybody when you can't be really transparent. And so hopefully over the next couple of years, people will be able to follow pastured place as a, an aftercare business model. That's what we're hoping. We're hoping to set an example and Prove it can work and then slowly work it down so that we're not quite as large and that we can focus, a little bit more specifically on a smaller group of horses as other people maybe start stepping up and following the model and contributing to aftercare as a whole.
And so that would, be a hopeful goal long term, is to get, this a little bit smaller, not 128 horses, but, it still might be 128, but lesser on the adoption side, and just have, some, the sanctuary horses are going to be what they will be but try to get to be able to really Promote and get the horses out there.
We are now, but obviously on a much smaller scale than the number of horses that we have, because it would be hugely expensive to have every one of them out there. Yeah, for sure. And we're just trying to get the. The ones that we feel are best suited out there. Yeah. You may have said this, but about how many horses would you say you have that are ready to be adopted at any given time?
Currently we probably have 35 to 40 that would be adoptable of very different ranging levels. Like I said, they go all the way from, the little mare that has a good would be a trail horse, but has some limitations or. We have a few that maybe aren't the most athletic example of a 3rd grader who would be better off not trying to have a major career after the racetrack, and all the way up to ones that we think might have the potential to be upper level menhorses, or showjumpers, or, whatever career somebody wants to try to take them in.
It's cool that you have such a nice cross section and such a diverse group that way I feel like different types of buyers or shoppers could be, find what they're looking for there. And and as I said, a lot of what we're trying to do is get horses out there that aren't going to be perfect.
And say, look, like he might not have the most perfect x rays, but the horse is going around training, hasn't taken a lame step since he started eventing. And, he's going to be able to do the job. Wouldn't you rather take your chances with that versus something you don't know anything about?
I don't know. Yeah. And we did the same thing with RRP. The horses we choose to send to RRP and promote are horses that aren't going to be the easiest to adopt. I really love them. Maybe they're a little quirky. Maybe they're not going to be perfect for your traditional thoroughbred disciplines, i.
e. the ones we sent to Chelsea. So we try to get the ones out there that need to be seen and Show that like it's okay if they're a quirky it's okay if their x rays aren't perfect or they don't have the perfect tendon scan or Whatever may be they can still be useful, productive, stay sound for the job.
Yeah. So do you have any specific standout stories or underdog tales that you'd like to share since you've been working with these guys? We have all our kind of horses that we've brought along and gotten out there and been proud of. I don't know if there's probably any major Underdog stories, and we've only been doing it for two years as a not for profit, so we're a little limited in our stories period.
But I would say, honestly, Every horse has their story in some sort of fashion. And sometimes it's even simply like seeing a horse that maybe you didn't think was going to be the horse for that person. Like they were really quite sure they wanted to try that horse. And I was not really sure. But you know what, the horse just for whatever reason was like, this is my person.
Yeah, and clicked. We've had a few of those that are just really nice situations where you're like, yeah, this is your horse. We had one that [00:36:00] just got adopted a few weeks ago, and I was just like, this is so cool. This is this is it. This is a horse I didn't think was going to be easy.
She really hasn't been, but she loves her new. That's amazing. That's what's great is that we can wait for them to pick their person. And sometimes it is simply that, as much as we talk about, the person coming in, picking the horse, sometimes the tougher ones, it's simply they need to pick.
It's really hard on the horses when you have different types of people, different types of riders, trying them and things like that. , we had a horse that man, he knew when he was being tried and he would just, he would run off with people, but in like a silly way and , he knew exactly what he was doing to look in his eye.
And then all of a sudden, we're cantering and all, and he Niamher did it with any of us that would ride him regularly. It was only when someone was coming to try him. So finally, I would have to just have people arrive while he was being ridden in the ring already. Cause I think he knew he gets put on the cross ties and people look at him and like the whole, we had to mix up the entire thing.
And then he was fine. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes they're smarter than we give them credit for. Sometimes they're not, but sometimes they are smarter than we give them credit for. And I think with the horses like that, you just have to let them pick their person and you're going to be okay. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's like I said, it's a luxury we have. We can wait and let them pick their person. Which helps because again, our goal is forever homes, so it needs to be somebody they click with. Yeah. For sure. In the long run, it's going to work out better for everybody involved when you have the ability to do that.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. How do you think that the success stories of OTTBs like we were talking about enhance support of the breed overall and expand outreach? I love how you guys are expanding and not just focusing on the venting types. That's the whole thing. Yeah, that's what you've gotta do.
Your average athletic, reasonably sound thoroughbred can vent. It's Going to be their natural second career so it's trying to get the ones out there you know, like I said that are junior friendly or adult amateur friendly or Even if they're quirky could go on and, or have, whatever limitations can be a barrel horse or a dressage horse, something polo pony, just try to get them out there.
Cause , the more disciplines they can participate in, the more things they can do. The larger pool of adopters you have, and cause if you just stick to, Oh, I have event horses, like you're limiting your pool and not every horse is going to be an event horse. I've got a few that really athletically are not that inclined.
And that's okay. That's not a big deal. I think, and it's why we're participating in RRP and trying to send horses in different disciplines. Really trying to kind of branch it out. And we had a great go this year. It really, I think, demonstrated the versatility of the horses that we've produced.
We had our sponsored horses. Sponsored event horse won the preliminary and then ended up second in the finals. The sponsored Western horse, Chelsea's horse was fourth in preliminaries and second in the finals. A horse that was adopted from us. And then obviously our polo horse did well and the team did well overall.
And so it was good because we showed we have some really quality horses we were developing at Pastured Plains, for a small organization that only sent,, four sponsored horses. And then a few that had been adopted also went and I was disappointed one of the adopted horses that was supposed to go was going to do mounted archery.
Oh. Like she jumps fences and shoots a bow and arrow off of her. That's so cool. And it's a four year old chestnut mare. Yes, I love it. So I was super disappointed she got an abscess and wasn't able to go. But she was going to take a mare that she had adopted from us last year. She adopted her in December and she was gonna go for a venting and freestyle and do mounted archery.
Gosh, now that I know that's a possibility, I totally want to do that. I just did a photo shoot with a friend of mine and her off the track thoroughbred and she literally dressed up like something out of Lord of the Rings with a bow and arrow and like the whole get up and I was so all about it.
So good. Yeah, she was posting videos on Facebook of, her jumping little fences and shooting targets at the same time. So cool. , I was real sad when that one hadn't come out. I was like, man, that would have been, like, some kind of rage between the polo pony, the mounted archery, the barrels, the showjumper, the event horse, the visage horse.
We spent something for everything. , I think the more you can get them out there, the more people can see them doing and hear the stories of this horse is successful in barrel racing and this horse is, a chestnut mare let's not.
Talk about all the poor stereotypes against chestnut mares. I happen to love them, but she was going to go. I've always been a mare person. So she was going to go down and freaking, like I said, shoot a bow and arrow off. I wonder if anybody will do working equitation there. There's they've started up some little groups in our area with working equitation, and I have a friend that does it.
And I know it's normally like Baroque. Breeds that do it, but I feel like if you had the right kind of thoroughbred, it would be so cool to do it. Oh, yeah, they could probably give it a try. They're pretty game for it. Yeah, I mean they're horses that are bred like work ethic is bred. Yeah. Yeah having a job is bred the best part and so They don't really, most of them want to just sit around.
If they have to, if they have to fine, but I, ideally they want to do [00:42:00] something. Yeah, no, absolutely. We one of the girls at our barn, she has a horse that raced almost a hundred times and she did the RP with him. He, she's done everything with him and he's basically retired, but.
He just, he's hi, I'm here. I'd like to do something. Yeah, for sure. It's really funny. Cause he's just turned into this kind of hunter poofy the her bread now, but he just he really does want to do stuff, but he doesn't really want to do anything like that. He just wants to be picked.
He's I'm here. Yeah, exactly. But what are your dog's names? By the way, Lux and Jewel. Lux. So L U X and J O U L E. So they're like the derivatives of. Light and energy. I love that. That's really cool. We're going to mention them in the description. So people know that they were the special guests in the background.
It won't be quiet. WheNiamher we're interviewing Jessica at some point, like a cat will just crawl over her head. Or across her computer. Yeah, so my dogs are participating today. Sometimes ours do too. Yeah, , mine don't like to be ignored. . How can our listeners support pastured place whether that's through donations volunteering or adopting a horse Can you just talk us through a secondary question?
Can you talk us through the adoption process and where somebody should start if they want to get involved with the company? So if they want to get involved, we have a website. So that's pasturedplace. org and there's links on there for donations. There's links on there for available horses. And , there's little video clips with pictures of a bunch of the available horses.
There's a page for the sanctuary permanent retiree horses. I think you can get a feel for it. We have a link there for, you can apply for a horse to be put into the program if you have one that's in need. So all of the contact and information's on there.
The top of the adoption page has my name and phone number. There is an email, which pasturedplace. org. So all of these things are ways to , get in touch. And then also we're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all of those things, and it's just at pastured place. I have a quick follow up question regarding the sanctuary horses.
Is there a way for people to do a virtual sponsorship of a. Sanctuary horse. So say they don't want to like adopt a horse from pasture place, but they want to adopt a sanctuary horse. Is that something that you guys are doing? Absolutely. We would be open to anything like that. And they could adopt one and come and pet it and rush it.
Yeah. I was thinking of where it's like, Oh, you can adopt an elephant in Kenya or whatever. And it's you get a picture sent to you and would you donate like a certain amount, like per month or whatever, and then you occasionally get an update and Yeah, for sure.
It was definitely be something we would be open to if anybody was interested. There are horses obviously down at the Maryland farm. There are horses in Oxford PA that are sanctuary horses, and then they also have broodmares in Kentucky. The retired broodmares live down in Kentucky. In Versailles and so I don't see any reason why Caitlin wouldn't be completely open to that idea and allowing people to do something like that, because it's about fostering people's love for horses as well.
Yeah, and there's plenty of people that I think love horses, but they don't have the time or the the luxury of having a horse of their own, even if it's just a pasture pet. But I feel like there are people that would like to. Make sure that their charitable donations go to an organization that they really care about.
And that's a very cool way for people to get involved. And yeah, and it's definitely one where, you can get involved. If anybody wants to volunteer, stuff like that, it's, we're absolutely open to it., all these horses like a brush and a bath every now and again.
And even if they're the ones that are just sanctuary horses, they all like to have some attention, as you said, they are, Thoroughbreds, they have a work ethic. They were bred to do things. So they do feel like, pick me, do something with me. So that's absolutely something that, we would be open to having people come and do.
And like I said, there's a link for donating on there just for general donations. And we would be happy. Anybody can email Pastured Place or call or text me. If they wanted to discuss some sort of, like you said, sponsorship of a retiree sanctuary horse. We certainly have plenty of them. And let's be honest, it's not like that list is going to get smaller.
There are so many horses that just need a home. And then also, with the adoption, we don't currently have An adoption application so much as it's just, I talk to people get a feel of what they're looking for, what they're trying to do. And I just don't do a whole lot of I don't really like to do too much off of video.
I prefer people come try the horses, meet them, see them with the horse. Because for us, it's really about the connection and a long term home. Not that we've Niamher done adoptions off a video, we try to mostly have it be horses that You know, people have seen and, we know that the connection is there.
Are you limiting adoptions to a particular geographical area? No, we have adopted horses to Canada, Texas. Because I know some organizations do have restrictions on certain amount of miles that they will do adoptions to and things like that.
I think it's always great when you can expand that as much as possible. We try to expand it as much as possible. And I'd really try, obviously with horses like that to keep in close contact, cause they're obviously a lot further away, so it's a little bit more of a chore to get them back if we have to.
My only concern is I did have somebody that was interested in shipping one to Hawaii. Oh, [00:48:00] wow. Wow. I was, I really just couldn't get comfortable with it.
That's a little, Too far. It's not within the continental United States where I can make anything pretty much work if necessary. That makes flying something back from Hawaii is different. And there are other organizations that will, I know, after the races we'll adopt to, Puerto Rico and the Bahamas and, things like that, but I do think that you have to mitigate what works for your organization and what makes the most sense.
And, if it's not with you guys, there's plenty of other organizations where they might find something that would work for them. Yeah. And then we do it by a case by case basis to some extent too, obviously. And, you can make anything work if it's the right situation. And , Caitlin has taken horses back through Caribbean aftercare.
They did have one that they took back that ended up in Puerto Rico racing, that came back. That she had brought back over through Caribbean aftercare. They have had some involvement in that fashion as well. That was before pastured place. Yeah, but But yeah we do we try to be pretty open in the adoption category we have to obviously try to do best for everyone horses people all alike And we're also very much we do have an adoption contract.
It is on the website Yeah, so people want to go just have a little look through that there is a no breeding clause in there, correct? Yep. Prefer no breeding, obviously. The whole point of having the not for profit is to not have more horses. Yeah, and I will say that I looked through your available horses page and I really loved how it was formatted, how kind of concise and clear it was, and it gave you just this really great visual and informational, Snapshot where, it was very clear if you like what just contact us and we'll give you more information.
. Yes, it was just very easy to navigate. And then I was also like, there's so many horses on here and they all look so nice. And then it was like, and we have so many more. , oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't gotten 'em all there yet. It was, but I really like what you guys are doing in terms of the way that you're presenting the courses and everything.
Yeah. The website's been kind of in development. Yeah. And we're really starting to get the hang of it. We had a. Professional kind of photo shoot in June and did the photos and the videos for that To just try to have a little something for each horse. That was like a two full day photo shoot to get the ones that we got.
It's a lot of work to get all that And we know just from having to make Do confirmation photos. Yeah. In a sales barn and all of that. And anytime you press play on a video, the horse is today's the day I decide I'm not going to pick up my left lead canner. Oh yeah.
Or like we had two of them coming lame. Yeah. Really guys, you were sound yesterday. They know. They're like, nope, not today. Not today. They know. My foot hurts. Yeah. They know. I'm like, okay then. Great. That's good. Good for you. You have to have a good sense of humor and a pretty thick skin, I think, to work in the industry.
You do. In any horse industry, you do have to have a good sense of humor, pretty thick skin, and, be able to put up with a lot, but yeah, and we try to be sure that everybody understands that any horse adopted from us can come back to us at any point in time. And the other thing I think is slightly different if you read through our adoption contract.
Is the medical clause. Oh, I feel like I might have skimmed over that. What does it say specifically? Adopter agrees to meet the organization's standards of care for said horse, maintaining good nutrition, vet care, vaccinations, warming, dental, hoof care, etc. Situation presents itself where the adopter has to decide between euthanasia and a life saving medical procedure The doc the adopter would struggle to afford the adopter agrees to make a reasonable effort to contact the organization Prior to making a decision.
I did read that. That is an amazing clause If that horse needs colic surgery and you can't afford it, don't put it down. We're gonna do it Yes, and then we're not taking the horse back. We'll just do the colic right and I have known enough about PTK and the background of the organization to know that , when they say that they mean that they're going to do that, they're going to do it.
And that's a very special thing. I do strongly encourage everyone gets their horses insured, but I think it is really nice to know that that's an extremely unusual scenario for people to be in when dealing with an aftercare organization. It is because again, it goes down to funding.
Yeah. So that's a big issue. Whereas we have a a backer in the Hawheath where they love all their horses. They realize they are, financially in a position to make sure that all of their horses can have the best of everything for their entire lives, even if they are no longer in their care and insuring them is great, but there's things insurance companies don't cover and, we had, we've covered definite, we've definitely covered stuff for adopters know and also it's just, insurance is great, but sometimes you just might not have the availability in your funds or credit to, to throw a slap down a card and say, do whatever it takes, and that's always a thing that I think as horse owners were, we struggle with.
And so we try to have that be, one of our little incentives for adopting. That's very special. Thank you. You're welcome. You have our support. Yeah. Period. Once you adopt that. Yeah, that's amazing. If you need us for anything, consult on something. We've had horses come back for a couple weeks of training and working with the adopter to make sure that everything, went smoothly.
Yeah. We've, , covered medical expenses that were not within their ability to pay. Budget and such. So we're very into long term support. Once you adopt a horse from us, it's not the end. Just thinking about how this relates to other animal adoption organizations and I don't know if you follow pet vet corner or horse vet corner on Facebook or anything like that, but.
When you're in an area where you're spoiled with access to emergency veterinary care or field service, veterinary care, you often take for granted the fact that [00:54:00] there are many people that are very passionate about loving their animals and don't have the same access or accessibility to, five star medical care for their animals.
And so it's just really a nice thing to know that an organization like pastured place is able to step in and close the gap there for some people. Cause I feel like there's a lot of people that are super passionate about horses can afford the day to day. They can afford , the expenses here and there, and they'd Niamher want the horse to suffer, but truly there could be that little bit of a couple thousand dollars could be a massive setback for them.
Yeah. And yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. So , that's one of our big things is that we want people to know when you adopt a horse from us, you We're still here willing to yeah exactly support. Yeah, and make sure that you know that horse stays well, and you know is taken care of and That the adopter is in a good place as well.
Allie, thank you so much for sharing your background and educating our listeners about Pastured Place. We loved collaborating with Chelsea O'Brien this year. I'm really hoping I get to meet her in person soon. We've talked about doing a photo session together. Just the way she approaches horses and has talked about your organization, I think made Emily and I like super jazzed up about wanting to get you guys on the podcast, and extending your voice as much as possible.
And we, again, we'd love to have you on again. It's very clear that you just think so highly about thoroughbreds in a way that supports the breed from start to finish. Do you have any last thoughts that you'd like to share? You know what? I was happy to be on. I'm happy to, Do you follow up interviews?
If you guys think of other questions or whatever you want to go over and things. And yeah, I think the biggest thing is we're just really trying to promote pasture place and promote this model of aftercare and try to, spread it and hopefully get the racing industry on board. At least the ownerships that can be on board with doing it and.
Maybe try to get a little bit more of a concise group effort. I was just thinking I wonder if there was a way to break down the business model and the background of what you guys have done into some sort of an infographic to share with other racing barns or race groups or something where you could just say this is what it's all about.
And we've talked about this a lot, but that there's just this huge shift into everybody working together versus. Working against each other. And it's so cool to see, especially in the last couple of years. And I think that's been the especially exciting thing for Emily and I to have started this podcast a year ago.
We're at a part of the industry that is really looking to the future. In such a positive way and we're so happy to help share that voice for sure And I think there are a lot of Owners that and big owners that are really trying to do more towards aftercare gadolphin has their program and several of the other big owners have their program mike rapoli formed that national thoroughbred alliance where he's trying to bring everyone together and , accomplish that more concise aftercare plan for racing as a whole.
And, I feel like in general, we get a bad name as racing people to some extent. I really think it's starting to shift. I really do. I feel it. But I do think it's starting to shift. we are starting to get it out there that we, yes, occasionally horses do get hurt and sometimes catastrophically, but the number that do is very small for the number that.
And I think the reason we get so attacked for it is it's public. Yeah, and the optics are on the negativity and not on the positivity. And so that's why we're here, right? And the optics, like you said, are on the negativity and it's very public. Yeah. It's on a big stage in front of people that don't understand horses.
And so our industry versus the show horse industry where when things go wrong, it's not swept under the rug so quickly. So quiet. Nobody really hears about it. It's not that we are, killing horses at some rapid rate. And honestly, you can't do this job if you don't love it. Yeah, some of the bigger trainers do make good money, but at the end of the day, we all started out as somebody who was working 20 hours a day because we love a horse.
And we love the sport. So yeah, maybe they made it big and they're whatever now, but they all started somewhere that wasn't there. And it all started with a love of the sport and a love of the horse. Yes. So we don't genuinely, none of us want to see them get hurt or anything go wrong. Most of these horses live better than I do.
Yes, exactly. We like to reiterate that a lot. Yeah, so they do, and it's I think it's great that, like you said, the perception is starting to shift, and we're starting to get the positivity out there instead of the constant negativity. Yeah. Last question, can you describe a thoroughbred in one word?
Divine. Oh, that's a new one. That's a new one. I love that. Absolutely. What was the jockey club name of your horse when you were 14? Mary's Faith. Mary's Faith. Niamhe is quickly spying. I'm going to be spying on her. Oh, yeah. I don't even know. God, I don't even know the record. She competed in the 90s, so like the USC, it wasn't even USCA, then it was USCTA.
All those records are like, you can find some of them, but I looked back to see what I could find. So you did long format stuff with her. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, that was back when they still had the long format. You and Emily out there, just a couple of [01:00:00] teenagers riding your thoroughbreds, long form, I get taken off.
I don't know. Your story has reminded me very much of my off track thoroughbred stories. Oh yeah. Like, all right, here we go. Yeah, no, I know. She was all over the place she was a wild child having to do road and tracks on an actual track and being like, this isn't. Yeah, hold on.
Oh, yeah, nice long trots through the woods, but yeah, no. So it was back with long format, and I was in many ways sad to leave eventing when I left it and got into racing, but don't regret it in the slightest fell in love with racing, fell in love with what I was doing.
And, very happily went a different direction and I'm glad I did because I think the eventing I grew up with is not the eventing of today. And honestly, it was very much on display. Like I went and watched the Maryland five star. I went to cross country. I haven't been to an upper level event in, probably I went to show jumping it back at the three star at the Fairhunter National when there was no five star when it was only three four star.
And so that was the last time I went to show jumping there in 2010 11 And I hadn't gone to cross country at a big event like that for several years prior to that and I It was definitely different. Very different. Very. Yeah. It's weird. So having left it when it was still long format and like now slightly getting back into it with Kirsten and Amy and doing this, all the horses for pasture place and trying to promote them and getting them out there.
It's so different now than what it was when I was a kid. And And that horse retired in 98. She did a tendon and, got retired. And I showed her pre St. George. I showed her some dressage. That's cool. Yeah. Which we're definitely having you back on now. Interesting. She wasn't the best dressage horse, but.
So I showed her some fourth level in pre st. George and that is very cool box hunted or some and stuff She had a couple of babies Wow tried to die after the second Yeah, no, I mean she was a whole trip But hey, you know what she lived to 30 and she was a wild child till the end. That's really cool.
Really cool That's okay. And but yeah, I think that I think it's good that we're starting a shift in the industry. And I'm hoping that, we can definitely start having a lot more positivity. And I think everybody is really trying to come together now in racing and, give ourselves a better image.
Definitely. I agree. You've got to counteract the negativity that the media is going to put out there with. The good stories and the positivity and because they try to make it out. Like we don't care Couldn't be further from the truth. Exactly. So all right. Thank you so much again for being on and just a reminder Yeah, thank you for having me.
Absolutely we've been wanting to set this up for so long. So i'm glad that it all worked out as a reminder listeners can find pastured place online at pasturedplace. org And also on social media at Pastured Place on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all the things. Yeah, yep. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all the things.
Awesome. All so thank you. And if you liked what you heard today, please leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. You can follow OTTB ON TAP on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and contact us with interview candidates and topic suggestions at OTTBONTAP. com. We love hearing from you. Allie, I'm just gonna stop the recording, but if you can just stay with us for a minute, and, Sure, yeah.