S2 E12: Ashley Steele Norris: OTTB Training, Transformation, and the Power of Determination

Transcript - S2 E12: Ashley Steele Norris: OTTB Training, Transformation, and the Power of Determination
[00:00:00] Hi everybody. And welcome back to OTTB on tap. I'm Niamh. And I'm Emily. Hey Niamh. What's on tap today? Today we're thrilled to have a very special guest. Ashley Steele Norris of Sunbriar Equestrian.
Ashley is known for her incredible work with OTTBs and her experiences working under the legendary eventer, Jane Sleeper. We can't wait to dive into her journey and insights into the OTTB world. Welcome, Ashley. Hey guys, I can't thank you enough for having me. It's a real privilege and I really commend the work that you guys do in promoting Thoroughbreds and encouraging people to jump into a life with them.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you. To start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where are you located? And then also kind of give us a little background about how you got involved with horses and led you to working with OTTBs. So I will do my best to summarize, but I am currently located in Coatesville, Pennsylvania.
I have worked for Jane Sleeper for. Boy I would say 15 years now that we've been working together and I've kind of learned her training techniques and developing horses. I actually moved from New Hampshire to Pennsylvania to be a working student for her. And in New Hampshire, my parents had a farm and my mom had a lesson and boarding.
Operation. And so we had 25 horses and 80 lesson students a week at our farm. I was her right hand. So I started teaching when I was about 11, I got into pony club and that's where I learned about eventing and I was hooked. I had done kind of 4 H and the hunter jumpers. And then I learned about eventing and I was like, Oh, no more.
So. Throughout her business we had a lot of thoroughbreds here and there in the mix of lesson horses and boarders. So you kind of learn how they're a little more sensitive than different horses. They're all different. And then I moved down to Janes to be a working student.
Absolutely fell in love with Pennsylvania and was like, this is the Mecca of horses and I'm not leaving. So I have been here since and now I'm her assistant trainer. And we've worked together for a really long time. We have a great balance and relationship and working with horses together and going back and forth and brainstorming about how we can do it better to make the horse be all it can.
And in the interim of this, I also have gotten married and I have three kids and I work with horses all day, every day. So I, you're pretty busy. Yeah, so I really enjoy teaching. That's something that I've been developing for the last couple of years. I'm here in Pennsylvania to have a bigger student base and share my knowledge.
So you mentioned that you kind of learned how to learn Jane's methods and her approach to bringing horses along, and I know that often starts with a lot of young horses as well. How did she shape your approach to horses in general? What were some of the. Theories and philosophies that you've sort of adapted and taken on.
I think that the biggest one that I learned from her Is that you have to listen to the horse, they're trying to tell you us something with their actions and whether it be misbehaving or being good or confused sorting through their emotions and figuring out The best way to help that horse understand what we want it to do and what its kind of job is as a horse, as a riding horse versus just like a turnout horse.
I think watching you work with quirky and or difficult horses is maybe one of my favorite things to witness because you get a very . Neutral like your face goes neutral and then your body follows the the pattern of whatever your facial expression is and I'm like, how is she able to do that?
It's really cool. And you know, I just wanted to jump in here really quickly because we've been kind of bad about doing this. When we bring up a big name on the podcast, we'll just throw the name out there and then not give any qualifiers. And if you grow up in a completely different world of horses, maybe you don't know who Jane Sleeper is, but it's possible you know what I mean?
I think that's a very good point. Or you're not an event rider. Or if you're younger, everyone has a different , approach to things. Exactly. So Jane was in the Seoul Olympics and has other world championships under her belt as well.
And she's renowned in this area for being a huge supporter of volunteerism and the eventing world. You pretty much see her everywhere you go. She's an icon. So it's very cool that you've worked for her since you were right out of high school. And I actually didn't realize that I was talking to one of your students today about that.
And she's like, Oh, I didn't know that either. So Yeah, she's been a fantastic mentor. I've, you know, she's taught me everything that I'm willing to learn. And they're not always easy lessons, but they are lasting. It's a good way to put it. And it's been a really interesting to develop our, relationship as we've grown as, from me being her working student to being her groom and getting, you know, the biggest thing about being her groom is, I went to all her lessons and watched all her cross country lessons, her show jumping lessons, her dressage, everything. I was her shadow. And I remember when she first started riding with Phillip Dutton and he was fairly new to the area and he was Quite quiet when he would teach and she would say, Ashley, stand next to him because I can't always hear what he's saying.[00:06:00]
So I got to stand right next to Philip Dutton and then if I needed to, I would relay what he said because he wasn't very outspoken at the time. He's really developed his instructing and teaching abilities. He was, he's always been very good at teaching, but a matter of getting it across to his students.
He's really developed that. So yeah, it's been awesome. So after being her groom to then being her assistant rider to head rider and how our relationship has. Changed from her, kind of knowing how the horse is going to get changed to me having to relay what I'm feeling and then kind of coming together to figure out how we can best improve the horse.
Yeah. And I'm sure that probably feels like an enormous amount of responsibility as she's taking, , a little bit of a step back from, doing the majority of the riding portion. And now, you're coming up as her protege to impress upon all of these horses, what you've learned over the last 15 years.
So that's a big deal. Yeah. It's been a daily thing every day. I just show up and see what the day is going to bring, whether the weather or horses, that's kind of our joke is like, well, carpe diem and life with horses.
Niamh touched on this a little bit, but Jane is known for her emphasis on volunteerism and giving back to the sport. How did her philosophy in volunteering influence your perspective on contributing to the equestrian community? It's made me really grateful because Support that we do, you can't do without volunteers and
So if I have time to volunteer, I try to. But if I'm competing and there are volunteers, you know, to thank them, you know, I'll be walking a course and I'll, you know, jump judges. Thank you for volunteering today. And I really try to be positive with volunteers and I think that's hard.
As an instructor, I know all riders deal with nerves differently and, especially at a competition, people think, okay, I'm just at a competition, everyone's here and doing their job. But these people are here because they want to be. And if we don't have them, you're not going to have the sport that you're here to compete at.
So I really try to be grateful and gracious with everyone that helps and volunteers at the events. And thanking them and being kind and patient and, you know, Hey, you've got Boyd and he's got five horses. Whatever you need to do, or hey, I've got a bunch of horses. Is there any chance you could slip me in?
But if not, it's no problem. Just trying to make it so that everybody's life is a little easier and not Being difficult. Yeah. And I think it's another good point to mention in the eventing world, and this might be eye opening for people that, are in other disciplines but eventing is pretty unique in the sense that there are very few paid officials to be at At events.
So , you're paying your judges and your technical delegates and some of your officials and things but by and large, every person you as a rider interact with is somebody who's not being paid to be there and they're actually taking time out of their schedule, whether they're riding that day or they're riding the next day and coming up and showing up and giving some time back to the sport.
And as someone who's done a fair amount of volunteering. It can really ruin your day if somebody is horrible to you. I was just going to say to you that they're out in the same weather as the competitors and they're out there all day. Yeah. In the hall. All day. Not for sometimes they all have a chair.
This is a joke about this. Actually. One time, Emily and I were going to go volunteering at fair Hill and she stayed at my house and we were supposed to bring chairs. And I was like, Oh, I have chairs. And I got these chairs from my. Garage, they were outside chairs, like, patio chairs, but they didn't fold or anything.
And I had a two door civic, like 1992. Did you get one chair in? Oh, no, I got it half in. I cut my shin bone was bleeding everywhere. And Emily's just laughing so hard. And she just took a photo of it. So every once in a while, that photo will pop up. She'll just text it to me.
And then we sat in the sun and got so sunburned. I think that day, but whatever. It was a rough day. We did have a good time, but yeah. Yeah. I actually remember one of the first times I volunteered, I was. I was eight years old and I had gotten stepped on and hurt my toe. So I couldn't ride.
It was at a pony club function. And so I went and I jumped judge and I volunteered all day. My foot was in a wrap and I was on crutches and I got home and I sat down on the couch and I cried. And my dad was like, Ashley, what's wrong? And I was like, I want to ride. It was like the first time ever in my life.
I had not been able to ride. Yeah. I had to sit out. And so, yeah. Thank your volunteers because they could be injured or not, their horse could be injured. They're out there helping out if they had a bad day or they can't compete, they're there showing up so we can do what we need to do or want to do.
Yeah. It's a better way. And in defense of volunteering too you've got a front row seat to all day learning, all day auditing. So that's one of the coolest parts about it. If you're, stewarding the warmup or the in gate, you get to watch how many jump rounds or dressage tests per day.
And it's really cool. . One more story on the. Volunteering with Jane, cause she actually encouraged me to scribe for the intermediate at plantation. Yeah. So I got to scribe the intermediate test with Pam Wiederman and we sat there and ran through. We didn't get behind once on our scoring or tests.
I was right there, but I learned so much about you know, how it's all run and what the [00:12:00] judge is looking for , in relative terms. But you know, to get, and I say, okay, I'm going to write clear comments because I love getting a test and I can't read what it says. Like, I think that says, Right. You start at the beginning of the day like that.
And then by the end of the day, you're just scribbling. Like, Oh no, I've got to keep up. Yeah. So Jane's always encouraging her students. We were down at Lockmoy and her student had a miscommunication with her horse and promptly jumped out of the show dumping.
And this is back when they had a rope. And she was really upset. The student, you know, that, that happened cause she couldn't turn a horse. And so Jane said, okay, you have five minutes to get over yourself and then you can go volunteer. And so she did. And she went and volunteered all day for while we were there for the show, jumping, picking up rails.
And then they gave her an entry to the next horse trial.
And it really turned her day around, when she got the entry and made it worth her while and not that you do it to get something, but that was a neat situation that went from wow, my life is ending. I just got eliminated. Showed him for jumping out of the ring to, Hey, look, I've got a second chance at it.
Yeah. So very cool. Oh, I like that. That's really good. Well, I touched on this a minute ago, but Jane has a remarkable record, including competing in the 1988 Seoul Olympics and the 1991 Pan American Games. Are there any specific stories or lessons from her international experiences that she shared with you, which left a lasting impact?
And I'm just going to put in parentheses here, besides the fact that you got to ride her beloved horse, Yuen.
I have to say when I first was a working student, one of my goals, I want to ride an advanced horse. And my third day as a working student, she's like, okay, we're going to go Gallop. You're going to ride. I think she put me on big mo and you just stay right behind me. Okay. And I'm on this 17 hand Irish sport horse and I had come off of a 15 hand Welsh thoroughbred.
So I was like, I'm going to die. And it's going to be the greatest day of my life.
And I didn't die and I just kept showing up every day after that. So Did you stay behind her, though? Oh, yes. One hundred percent. I did not get run off with or past Jane. I said, nope, you stay right behind her so you don't step in any holes and it actually cracks me up. So Jane's always instilled, , always, you know, be careful holes, be careful holes.
So I've taught, been teaching my son to ride. He's ridden on and off his whole life. But he's 13 now and we go out and he loves hacking and he'll be like, Oh, mom, careful, look out for holes. It's a good lesson to learn. It's probably the cutest thing I've ever heard. Oh, mom, careful. Look out for holes.
There's a hole right there. That's my life lesson from James Super that
I passed on. So back to a. So, I think the biggest thing that she's taught me from her international experiences is the proper way to condition your horse for cross country and that how important The whole lead up is everything matters as far as your horse, the shooing time. You know, you didn't want it to get shod, you know, to attend to 10 to 14 days before the event.
And, but the, the fitness is really something that she's instilled on me is that your horse has to be fit enough and my first fall as a working student, I got to gallop UN on our gallop sets a couple of times because she had UN and then another big Irish galloping New Moon who was a little harder to gallop because you had to make him work harder where UN just did it naturally.
So I got to ride UN instead. But anyway, so we did all the conditioning, I started in August and in the almost end of October was the fair hail three star, which would now be a four star. She rode UN and got the fittest horse award and that was really instrumental into my outlook on, why, you get up at six in the morning, you go gallop the horses when it's hot out in the summertime.
And why you trot for 45 minutes and, on the road and on the grass and all the things. I think that's one of the biggest things is the fitness and then just the consistency in their work and having the fitness program within their dressage and their jumping and their cross country schools.
Yeah, I know Emily talked a lot about this in some of her episodes about her advanced horse Alex, but , especially in the like late 1990s and early 2000s she's spoken to the point that you might have three or four big events for the year that you were concerned.
Aiming for for qualifications and things like that and so that type of more like two, right? There was one in the spring and one in the fall So I had to plan it out very yeah, and so you had to be so careful with your horses preparation because everything relied on Getting around those events and that's something that has really really stands out and just hearing you talk about it with Jane, it just echoes the same thing that she's told me.
A lot of trotting, a lot of trotting. Yeah, we used to park at Bruce Davidson's and trot all the way to Nelson's Hill. Gallop up it twice and then trot back and sometimes usually before 7 in the morning and it was great. I loved every minute of it Get very fit that way yeah fit and they do and you know, then I recover this is a whole nother topic that I'm not going to broach on [00:18:00] because it's not thoroughbred related.
That's okay. It's eventing related and it's more about how the sport has changed, but it's a whole nother. Yeah, that's a lot. We could go on for days. That's a whole other episode. That's a whole other day for that one. So let's stick with Thoroughbreds. Yeah, so talking about Thoroughbreds at your business, Sunbriar Equestrian, you have focused on OTTBs.
So what drew you to Thoroughbreds in particular, and what do you find rewarding about working with them? So, Thoroughbreds just kind of tumbled into my life. As I said, I went from my pony to a Welsh thoroughbred and . It's a little different than a regular Thoroughbred because he was half pony, so he's pretty stubborn, but a whole different kind of from my pony where, so I had to learn how to finesse and ask instead of just demand, ponies, you gotta say, do it now.
And the Thoroughbred, you say, well, , can you try it? And so it was a real learning curve for me. With him. And then to go to straight thoroughbreds, having a horse, you think it and a horse to do it is essentially riding a thoroughbred and you have to learn how to Manage your mind, because if you start hyper thinking, then the therapist is like, Well, I'm trying to do all the things that you're thinking, and then you're like, Well, why are you doing all these things?
Snowballs a little bit. So, there's definitely a learning curve there of how to, Niamh, you said earlier, Like, you get this calmness about you on your face and your whole body just uses that. That took a lot of practice. That did not come naturally, you know, I was like, , why is my horse, you know?
So But I love how once you get through that, I always go back to kind of Jimmy Wofford who says , be a lazy rider in a sense that you move your pinky and the horse responds, or, you know, you close your fingers and they're there thoroughbreds want to be that way, , of course they're horses, so never say never, and they're all different, but the average thoroughbred is going to, Be broke, show up and want to work.
And those are three things that I really enjoy about them. I like that though, that there, say that again, they're broke, they show up and they want to work, right? Yeah, I think that's what you said. And I think that's a great way to put it because I think there's this misconception amongst people that haven't taken Thoroughbred straight off the track and started writing and they think.
Maybe they're not broke they're just. Broke a little bit differently, but they know all of the things and they know how to have a rider on them and all the hard stuff is done. It's just the kind of the communication and learning their language. I feel like it is. And in teaching, I have a lot of students and I really get a little in depth with my students and their emotions when I teach.
I don't know what you're talking about. So it's not a in a critical way. It's meant to be reassuring, like, Hey, why don't you try this? Or why don't you try that? It's not a, you're not doing that right. Or, you know, why are you doing this? It's, it's a very kind of around the bend, like, well, this is happening.
And what can we do to. change it or improve it. And I really try to have my students think about their thought processes and what they're telling the horse. So, with thoroughbreds, my approach is that, You have to be able to handle your own mind to manage a thoroughbred to an extent.
Like I'm not trying to say that these crazy animals and you can't just get on and, every thought you have, they're going to do. It's not. It, but when you're really into doing something and you want to do it really well and you're trying really hard to do it well, sometimes all the mental thoughts and the physical tension can be too much.
And finding that balance is a learning curve for the horse and the riders. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think it's and , from watching you work with a a thoroughbred not that long ago, that was, fairly quirky. I was just so impressed with how you took the horse, schooled it for its owner.
And the horse, I think you said something along the lines of the horse is always probably going to have this quirkiness, but you were impressing upon the rider. How to manage the quirkiness and cause you're like, I've just shown you and now I'm going to teach you how to replicate what I did.
You weren't like, I'm going to ride him and take away this quirkiness. It was we're going to embrace the quirkiness and work out how we can help him find his comfort and confidence. And it was very, very cool to see because, you know, I think when you have a thoroughbred, you have to have. Coach that can actually explain it so that you can do it yourself, if that makes sense.
Unless you have the luxury of sending your horse and getting it in full training for the rest of its life, then that's amazing. That's just it in my training approach is, I'm trying to train these horses. But I'm not trying to train them for myself. I'm trying to train them for the life that they're going to need to do.
And everyone has a different life. Whether it be a full time job, you've got enough time to do every hobby you want. So, the biggest one being everyone has a full time job and sometimes we can't ride our horses every single day, it's great, and horses need consistency and they need it to a certain age, I find.
But also you have to be able to say Hey, you know, life is happening. I'm not going to dig into it today. What am I going to have tomorrow? And so. I try to, be a little bit inconsistent at times. Once I get to a certain point in my training program, I'd say, okay, well let's see what happens if I give them two days off.
Okay. What happens if I give them three days off? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Cause you just never know [00:24:00] when your kids might need you that week or like whatever the case might be. And then you've got a competition in the weekend. I always do find things for my kids. That doesn't affect my schedule.
So funny story. My son did football for the first time two years ago now in the fall. And I was like, okay, you have to be there at five, five to seven. My husband's like, you have to do it.
I'm like, okay, fine. I will do it. I signed up. I took him to football. It was great. It was very organized, Tuesdays and Thursdays he had football practice. And then he had usually had games on Sundays. I think I only missed one or two games. So I was pretty proud of myself for that. And then he was like, I want to do baseball.
And my husband's like, yeah, sign him up for baseball. And emailed the team. Okay, well, what's your schedule? You know? And they're like, Oh, well, we don't really have one. And I was like well, okay. So I said, well, if you want him to do baseball, you have to bring him because.
It's not organized enough for me. Yeah. We don't have a schedule, you're like no. Yeah, , no, no, no. I don't have much of a schedule, but my schedule is horses, so I need to be able to fit that around it. And baseball, that's not going to happen. So, anyway life with kids and horses, but he's very good.
Well, so we're going to move on a little bit from your background and kind of approach to things and talk about a couple of the standout off the track thoroughbreds that you've Brought along or had a relationship with the first one is going to be the best things in life, which is such a good name So his bar name is actually freebie.
I had a pretty good chuckle that every time I you wrote his name those best things in life Well, I think I knew that you called him freebie, but I was like I wanted to double check I was like that makes all the sense in the world, but . That is a great show name Best things in life is known as freebie in the barn and he came into my life in I think 2018 so I We retired un in 2017.
She ran her last intermediate. June of 2018 at the age of 22, ironically. Yeah, she cooked around surefire for me, and it was after I had the twins, and I didn't want people to think I had stopped inventing at the upper levels because of the twins, because I hadn't. I'd actually had a really bad fall.
Anyway. Long story short, I went in her media and was like, okay, and then Jane and I were kind of like, well, what are we going to do now? You know, she's 22. I could jump around another three star. I had done three with her, but so I'm not going to compete her anymore.
So then I went, okay, I'm not competing UN and then I went, what am I going to do? So I don't have any horses. I had all these young off the track. There are reds actually., I had this barn full of all these babies and off the tractor, but I don't know what I'm going to do. And so I just kept working with them all fall and winter. And the following spring Freebie's owners knew Jane and contacted her about, him in for training.
And they're like, well, we wanted to go pretty slim. And so Jane said, he's going training level right now. Are you up for that? And I was like, well, yeah, I don't have enough for level horse right now. And I hadn't seen him nothing. So he comes in and I'm like What is this?
He looks like a quarter horse. He was downhill with this big rump and then he tight rope walks like you wouldn't believe. And then he's got a paddle up front. Yeah. He's a very odd mover. And I'm like, what is this? Okay. So, he had been going training level prior to coming to us.
So I didn't know him that well and I had to just and I'm going to be doing a horse training. So He was a pretty awkward mover and didn't score great in the dressage. But we got along well, I don't know. I was drawn to him and he's a real trier.
He doesn't have much going for him, but he is hard. Isn't humongous. And so his owners approached me that January and said, would you consider , kind of co owning with us. And I was like, well sure. Okay. So that first year, I think I did two events with him. Quick question. What was his jockey club name?
Because I looked up the best things in life and nothing came up. Was it just best things in life? Yes, so it's actually best things and then in life together. Okay. And I have his stats here. So his owner and breeder is Thornmarr Farr Farm? Thornmarr Farm. Yes. In Maryland, and it's Mr.
and Mrs. Charles McGinnis. So they bred him. Oh, wow. He had five starts. He made 4, 560. They sent him after his racing career, to Michelle Waro and he won the eventing 2015 RRP champions. So yeah, it was actually, I looked it up because I knew he had won, but I didn't know.
He beat out Call Him Patty and You're A to Zs. So I thought that was kind of neat to look up the record And he beat our horse. We had You Ain't Lyin who was a , Harry the Hat Baby.
So that was kind of fun to look through that. And so then he came to me and I was a little bit shocked when I first saw him having not seen him and been like, okay, yeah, we're going to take you prelim. And I was like okay.
So we got it done. He went prelim that fall and then they approached me about co owning him. And the next year I really spent the [00:30:00] primary. six, seven months of the year, just doing conditioning and dressage. He was very crooked in his development. And so the way his muscles were put on was crooked.
So he would move and it wasn't straight. So I really spent a lot of time in dressage with Linda Zhang and learning how to move his shoulders, to put them straight and. Straight for him was so awkward. And I just remember being like, he feels like he's bent totally right. And Linda was like, no, that's straight.
And I was like, Oh, okay. So the rest of my life, everything was bent right on him so that his shoulders were straight. And that's been a really big. Factor in his training. So I spent all that time just kind of getting to know him, doing dressage, getting him stronger. And then he came out that fall and it was a little bit of a shotgun fall.
I didn't really have a plan. And Jane goes, Oh, they have prelim at alongside the two star at plantation. And I'm like okay, that means I'm going to jump around a two star essentially, but okay. Okay. You know, and I'm very conservative on my horses when I run cross country at like prelim or above.
Everyone's like, you're going too slow. And I'm like, yeah, well, my horse has jumped around four two stars now and he's sound. So I've got something going for me. But anyway, so I said, okay, if I get to this point on the course and he's okay, cause I was worried about his fitness , I'll finish, you know, but if he's not, I'll pull up.
And he got to that point on the course and shied from a patch of grass. And I was like, okay, we're going to finish. So he jumped around that pretty big prelim and then finished the year by going prelim at Morven Park because , it was a pandemic. And so they had a prelim in November and I went down and I competed in it.
That was another reason why I didn't compete that much because we had COVID. So that whole year was kind of spent just getting them stronger and, straighter and. Yeah. More training buttons and then he came out in the spring, and I think he did his first two star at Fair Hill. And one of the reasons that we actually hadn't really considered it up until that point was his soundness.
I was like, who's going to pass this horse at a jog? He does not move like a normal horse, but it, as he got straighter and stronger, it got better. It's not perfect, but it's better. And his shoulders was a really big factor in that. So yeah, so now he has jumped around. Four two stars. He's completed an intermediate horse trial.
This year he was fifth in the two star at fair Hill in April. And then I kind of gave a crack at intermediate, but I've had a lot of different things in my life going on. And I just said, you know what? It's not the right time. So then I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
And I have no plan. So then I'm like, okay, well look, I'm going to have to start Fox hunting. So let's see if he'll hunt. Cause I have all these young horses that will hunt, but I need something that's broke to hunt. So it's a little more reliable. And he just took to it like a duck in water.
Oh sure. Yeah. You want me to go Fox hunting third flight? Sure. And happy to hack around in third flight Fox hunting Like he'd done it his whole life
and so within my fox hunting, the hunt asked me if I would ride at the Harrisburg hunt night. So I had never done it.
And Jane was like, well, who are you going to ride? And I was like, well, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm not going to bring a young horse because I don't know what I'm walking into. I'll bring my go to freebie. So. We went and I was pretty nervous. I've never done this.
And then it's at night. And anyway it was very fun. And you only got to practice once or twice. Right. Cause I saw you at a show and you were like, I got to go practice for this thing that I'm doing in a week or whatever. Yeah. So we practiced twice for the team hunting because he was on a team.
Yeah. But I said, okay, well since he's on the team and you could do a flat class and a jumping round. So I said, okay, I want him as. Best prepared as he can. So let's do a jumping round. So he actually went in and laid down this beautiful hunter round. And got a ribbon. So he was 8th place out of like 46 people at this hunter, in Harrisburg.
Was that in the indoor in Harrisburg? In the Coliseum. Oh man. Okay. Yep. That's pretty spooky in there, I would think. Yeah, no, he went in and he even did a flying change. That's so Mikey. You don't even do those in my venting, but here you are, Hunterland, you'll do it. And then we, you gotta love horses. So then we had a little bit of an issue with our team for the team hunting.
And so we kind of were like, well, who's going to lead? And because the girl that was going to didn't want to. And so I was like, well, I mean, okay, I guess I'll lead. I hadn't practiced leading and I was fine until you get to the last jump. But then I started overanalyzing it.
I should have just kept riding. So we were a little off the last one, but we all made it around and it was really fun. That's really cool. Is the goal to jump the last jump all together? Yeah. You want three abreast. So you have to turn on a diagonal and get all in a line and we did pretty good, but then I just slowed down a little bit.
So then the other two saw flyers and I added one. So I was like, Oh, well, you know, life happens and then literally 10 days after that, after doing hunters in Harrisburg in the Coliseum, I turned around and I said, okay, buddy, we're going to do third level massage. Register. Oh, my God. And we did, we went to Blue Goose and did our first, gave our first crack at third level.
We wrote two different tests and we got our first qualifying score. I'm working on getting my bronze. That's really nice. Yeah. And third [00:36:00] level is is a monster I hear. You're going to do a flying change in the test. I learned that.
So yeah, he did a flying change in the test and yeah, but we've worked really hard on his dressage, which has been very beneficial for him. Yeah. In his development and his strength and his movement. So yeah, he went out and was able to do the third level massage. And then I was like, okay, well, we're going to go out fox hunting some more.
And so we did some hunting and I'm not really sure what all I'm going to make him do this year. I set the bar pretty high last year. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so curious because when you described him in the beginning, it didn't sound like there was maybe a lot going for him. So I'm curious what kind of attracted you to him or what you saw in him to think, Oh, I'm going to, I mean, I know he came to you with the goal of going prelim, et cetera.
But what was it that kind of made you think, okay, we can really do this. And there is something special in there with this horse. He is the hardest working and trying horse I've ever ridden. I mean, he will give me 110 percent every day, no matter what I ask him, and he really just wants to do it. So regardless of his physical abilities, his heart has made him the horse he is.
And I think that the time and consistency he's had in his training has let him develop into the horse he's become. And that is such a factor, I feel, for horses when they come off the track. Yeah, they're fit from racing and stuff, but they haven't actually taken a breath, let their muscles down and then moved as a regular horse.
And some of them, it takes a bit of time. And I feel like people are a little bit short to just jump to the conclusions. Oh, that one's not going to do it. You know, it doesn't a 10 right off the bat. And it's like, well, give it, give it a little time, you know. So he, but he will try all day long for him.
And that is what I really enjoy about him. He shows up and he tries, cause he have days where he'll jump and it feels like there's a dragon behind him. Yeah. He's a thoroughbred. You know, he lifts his tail. I'm like, what is going on? Hold on. You know, there's nothing. It's just him being a thoroughbred, but it is.
Far and few and he's happy to do whatever. I kind of feel like doing that day if I'm like, Hey buddy, we're just gonna go for a half in a long rain. He's like, cool. Yeah. Hey, I practice third level massage. Cool. Hey, we're gonna jump some intermediate jumps. Okay, no problem. Yeah, and we talk a lot about that, baked in work ethic.
That is, I think you take a barn full of. That work ethic over a barn full of talent without the work ethic. For sure. I mean, that's been, the biggest thing and I've seen it a lot in training horses. It's like, well, wow, look at this one. That's amazing. Yeah. But how amazing is it when it's mind is Not as solid.
And that was the biggest thing. He and I got along that first season together and kind of had to sort out what he thought was funny versus when I was like, no, we're being serious.
And he went, Oh, you are serious. but I also will walk the course and say, Oh, that. That dirt right there. My horse might spook you. He's definitely going to spook at that. Yeah. You know, not the massive jump in front of him. No, but that's a dirt, you know, or that rope he might shy at.
Very scary. Yeah. So I call it thoroughbred, but he's just a horse and I like him to feel good, you know, I know he's feeling good when he does that. I'm like, okay. Like he's, yeah. He's showing up for me. He's a showman. Absolutely. So we have another very special horse of yours to talk about, and his name is Kicken Chris, a gelding with an incredible history.
His racing career was also remarkable. He earned over a million dollars. , I don't think I've met a million dollar winner of in racing, at least not, In a regular barn. Actually, as soon as Ashley was telling me about him, I went home after being at the barn and immediately looked him up and then watched on YouTube, you can find him winning the Arlington Million.
And I watched him win the race and he's something to behold for sure. Yes, well, for starters, he's not mine. He was owned by Brushwood Stable, Betty Moran, and then Caroline Moran took over his care after Betty passed. So he won the Arlington million as a race horse stallion, and then he was sold as a breeding stallion and, okay.
Mrs. Moran's secretary kept tabs on him and found out that he wasn't very fertile. So at this point, he was 10 years old and had been a stallion for his life. And the agreement was, yes, they can buy him back as long as they geld him. So at 10 years old, after being a successful racehorse, six years as a stallion, then he's a gelding.
And so they sent him down to Rigby Farm to get gelded and , kind of recover in that. And then he was trained by Michael Matz and that's how I believe he was sent to Jane's. I don't know. That connection there, whether it was Rigby or because Rigby farm is a good client of ours. Sharon and Liz do an amazing job, but anyway, he came to training with Jane.
I was actually pregnant with my first son. And so I started all his groundwork. And he thought I was pretty crazy because here he is, he thinks he's King Kong, you know, he's been a stallion for six years and now I'm like, [00:42:00] okay, you're going to lunge with side reigns. And he's like, you know who I am kind of a big deal.
And I said, well, that's great, but we're going to keep doing this, and you're going to, learn. And it was pretty opinionated. It took just a Patience and consistency, as Jane would always say, water dripping on a rock. And you just had to continue the daily repetition of it. Okay.
This is okay. We're going to lunge. Okay. We're going to lunge again, you know, until he just accepted it and. So then I had my son in August and he hadn't really found what I call his rider. He hadn't clicked with anyone yet. And so I said, all right, well, can I try riding him? And I ended up getting on quite well with him.
He was still opinionated, but I think because I had done all this groundwork, he had a pretty good relationship as far as like, yes and no. And he would challenge me occasionally of like, no, I'm king. And I said, well, I'm wearing the crown today. So. He ended up going competing at the training level of Venning.
In 2014 we did the plantation field starter and I think he just went beginner novice, but it's for Halloween and we actually dressed him up as himself winning the Arlington million. And Mrs. Moran came out. to see him with his cooler and I wore his jockey silks and it was a very neat experience. And something that really taught me how much the owners and breeders appreciate and value their horses and they want to see them.
Go on to do good things in their lives after being erased. I think too, when they're, really well bred and , they're so good at the track and they have such high hopes for them as , a stud, it's really nice to see them say, well, we gave that a shot, but surely there's more for him. Yeah, no, and they're just in the wellbeing of the horse, Uhhuh, you know? They, she loves seeing him thriving in his new job in life. Yeah. And then we leased him to a couple of different love families. I love that for being a horse, doing some jumpers, doing lessons, teaching their daughters to ride.
And in the interim of that, he had a field incident and ended up breaking his right hind leg. Oh my God. Oh boy. So here he is at 14 and, you know, with a broken leg. And so we had to call Mrs. Moran like, what do you want to do? These are the options.
And she actually ended up doing the surgery. Oh, wow. And so he had the surgery. It was a similar break to what Barbaro had. Wow. It was very substantial in the damage done to his leg. So they did the surgery. He lived at New Bolton Center for a good six to nine months. Wow. And then he recovered and went to live out his days at Brushwood.
And we have now worked with some of Caroline, Betty's daughter's horses. And every time we would go out to Brushwood, I would say, How's Chris? Is he still here? And she would say, He's doing great. Here he is. And he was just the sweetest, most regal horse. You know, the fact that he could change himself enough to manage that kind of an injury.
And yeah, on his life that not go crazy and run around and hurt himself, but just, okay. No, this is, this is the new me and I need to change. That was really something that he, and he lived another 10 years. Yeah, I think too, when they have these major surgeries in a horse's life.
It's not so much, can they survive the surgery, but can they survive the aftercare portion of, mentally, physically of just being able to. Be stall rested or, rehabbed. And it's really says a lot about his fortitude as a individual. Yeah, absolutely. He was amazing. I remember we used to visit him and we'd pick him a whole bucket of grass.
You know, cause they didn't have much grass. He had you guys, he had you guys pretty figured out, I think. Yeah. Well, once we, we really pick a horse, we pick them. Yeah. That's one thing about Jane's program and that I've really taken from her is that it's all about the horses. The horses always come first.
you know, anything they need. You have worked with so many off track thoroughbreds throughout your career. Can you share a success story beyond those two geldings that really stands out to you? Yeah. One of the first horses thoroughbreds that I worked with in Jane's program was a horse named Wild Trip and he was actually her working students horse at the time that she had purchased and was having a difficult time communicating with him.
And she kind of came to the program with him and Jane was like this horse isn't suitable right now. For where the girl was riding at in her abilities. The horse was too sensitive.
And so she actually leased another horse that had been in Jane's program, so it was just a little farther along and not quite as reactive. So while that all went on, I ended up riding him, and he was just a little kind of pocket rocket and sensitive, and so it was finding a bit that he accepted.
Was probably 90 percent of his issue was that he was just so sensitive in his mouth and not real big. So you didn't have a ton of room to sit on him. And the girl was kind of tall and a little gangly, you know, I think she was 16. She was pretty young. And so just her balance with his was a little hard for where she was at with her riding.
And so she leased this horse. I wrote him and he had gone [00:48:00] training and maybe a prelim here or there. And so I just did some novice training, kind of repetition, just this is the life, you know, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. And originally they were going to sell him, but then she ended up taking him back and writing him.
So between being a working student for Jane and me writing him, she went on to continue competing him and did her first one, now two star with him. Oh, wow. Thanks. And he went on to compete until 2014 and he did, he had 33 starts. This is after I wrote him. He had 33 starts and only three cross country penalties on that.
Wow. So that was pretty cool. And just the transformation within him and understanding, okay, you're sensitive. How can I make this so that you can understand? What your job is and how to help her. Yeah. What's something that was really neat for me when we were talking to Claire and Tom man's men about this, they were talking a little bit about how incredible it is to Have a horse that like, isn't at the current stage of work, like working that well with its rider, or they're kind of in that difficult part portion of their marriage and then having them come in and sort of selling the horse back to the original owner and being like, now it's the right horse.
Now you guys are at the right point for each other. And I think that's gotta be a real testimony to your training program. And, it just has to feel like a good, result in the end.
Yeah, absolutely. That's one of my favorite things to do, is to work with a horse. sell it or send it back to its owner and have it go on and thrive and understand its job and its purpose and be able to help my students or its owners be able to navigate the communication that it takes and the buttons that it has now and how they can utilize those.
, and I actually looked up his USEA record and I said, wow, he had 33 starts after I rode him. That's pretty good. It's really good. So that's the lasting effect. And that's, a job well done. You know, that makes me feel really happy about working with the horse and understanding and saying, okay, you're ready to go on.
And, and it wasn't that he wasn't not well trained. He just was. trained within a sensitivity and it managed and we just gave him some more tools. I would say that is how the development changed.
I think one thing that I want to Try to add in there as a little blip I talked about it with Chris and Brushwood and Betty and Caroline and them wanting to see, their horses that they've owned or bred go on to do well is that Cynthia and Charles McGinnis, they have been such humongous supporters of freebie and best things in life and helping me compete him to, you know, this year as It's been outstanding, all the adventures I've taken them on and sharing those with them.
They love seeing him thrive and how much I'm doing with him and how well we get along, whether I'm going to a two star or doing dressage or ponying my hair. three year old off of him or getting my kids off the bus. I mean, he will do anything for me. I have a video of the bus pulling up and I'm on freebie.
I'm standing there at the driveway. That's fun. I bet the kids were like, Oh my God. Yeah, so I'm standing there, the bus pulls up, the lights are flashing, the doors open, and out run my three kids, my youngest son, Wayne, I was like, I'm like, whoa, easy, easy. Right, just coming with papers flying. Barreling at Freebie, and Freebie's like, oh, look, and he just stood there.
It was amazing. Yeah. But it's been really fun to share the journey with Charles and Cynthia McGuinness and that relationship that we've created within Freebie. You know, he's the only one I have to thank for it and Jane, of course, but he's so special and they are as well for All that they've done for me and competing freebie and, anything he needs, they're so happy to help with.
And that's really cool. I just gonna say, I feel like you hear all the bad stories about race owners and not a lot of the good stories about those that want to stay involved after the horse retires. But there are some really good owners and good organizations out there doing a lot of great work.
So it's great to hear. Some good names there. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I've been very fortunate in my career to have met such wonderful owners That you know, just want what's best for their horse It's been very rewarding. I think you also really don't get to that Place of pure satisfaction. Like you're in now, or you kind of joke around with about this a lot where you're like, you know, people talk about professionals and I, I just don't know.
And I'm like, you're in the same pond with them. You'll go, well, that's for Boyd or but this is what Phillip does. And I'm like, no, you're like in the same pool. Stop it. But no, I mean you earned this place in your life where you're going to have better opportunities, great relationships with people, people that are bringing you horses, good clients, good students and all of that, because you've just really worked so hard to get to the point that you're at to be able to attract those relationships.
And we actually really haven't talked to very many people that have kind of come up through a. Pure working student kind of position we haven't really focused on it necessarily, but I think just the fact that you kind of went straight from high school to, working with Jane and now as a mom, looking back on your life and being like.
All right. I'm [00:54:00] ready to like be here and I don't quite know how it happened. Like I, I really didn't have much of a plan for my life, oddly as it sounds. So yeah, I had moved to Pennsylvania to be a working student and I was going to go to the Olympics. And that was my goal in life. I wasn't going to get married.
I wasn't going to have kids because who was going to have time for that. I was going to the Olympics. It sounds like, that sounds like my goal when I was getting out of high school. And so those, that was my goal. I'm sure in your mind, there was I have to complete all these steps, but I just talked to Emily about this a lot where it was like, I'm graduating and I'm going to the Olympics.
Yeah, I was like, no, I'm going to go prelim and then I'm going to intermediate and then I'm going to advance and then I'm going to the Olympics. You know, I would like see guys in high school and be like, well, what are you going to do with your life? And they're like, I don't know. I was like, well, I'm going to the Olympics.
But then I have to say one of the biggest things that kind of. Reshaped my outlook on how I was going to become what I wanted to be, which I didn't really know, but I had a general idea. I wanted to be, a horse professional. But when I didn't want to be an Olympian, I said, okay, well, what am I going to do?
You know, how is my life going to change? And the biggest thing that happened was I was supposed to go to Kentucky. In 2007 in Groom for Jane and her Mary Yuen for her first five star ever. And the first time I would ever go to a five star, which was actually a four star back then. I feel old. But anyway, and literally the day before We were supposed to leave, it was Saturday and we were supposed to leave, you know, Sunday night, Monday morning to drive to Kentucky.
I was schooling my young horse in our field where we school every single day and he slipped and he fell and I woke up in the hospital. No idea what happened. Oh wow. And come to find out he had slipped and fallen. I hit my head. I had minor brain hemorrhaging and did not get to go to Kentucky. And I think I was most upset about that.
Yeah, no, I apparently was telling the girl that worked with me. It was like, you're going to drive me. I am going to go to Kentucky. I can groom. It's fine when I was in the hospital. Yeah. Anytime I would like fall asleep and wake up, it was always a bit trippy. So yeah, after that I went home for like four weeks to recover and then, cause my balance was really thrown off.
And my speech was slow and I was like, Oh man, this is, not realizing at 18 that this could be life changing. I might've been 19 at the time, but you know this could be like lasting. I was like, wow, I'm going to get better. And I mean, I'm very lucky that it did, but that really kind of shook me and made me re center my life and what I wanted to do, as far as how important was it to go to a five star?
And was that who I wanted to be? You know, did I want to give up all the sacrifices to go to a five star or, you know, like having family and getting married and I know people do that and they do both, but it's a very big sacrifice of time and having done it with Jane and all the prep work for UN and then to have that happen, like life happens, you know, you never know what's gonna come.
You can try to plan out everything, but it's still gonna happen. So, I had been going prelim at the time when I had the accident that was not related to jumping or anything, but it shook my confidence. And I was like, you know, I'm not going prelim. So back down to novice and had to restart and rebuild all my confidence.
And that takes time. A lot of people don't talk about that. And I'm always kind of shocked when I see people come off at an event and then, you know, 30 minutes to an hour later, they're back on another horse. And I'm like, not me and it's not that I don't not come off, but I sure try not to.
Yeah. So I had to rebuild and I've had to do that several times in my career of having bad falls and not necessarily ones that have been physically debilitating or anything like that, but emotionally, you know, the confidence end of it. And I kind of decided that I didn't really want to do a five star.
I was like, if I don't get to a five star, that's fine. My life will not end. It will go on. And then I ended up, so I'm going to kind of shoot through my life story here real quick. Cast, that was a big thing though, that turning point when I had my head injury, that kind of made me really reevaluate my direction.
Anyway, long story short, I met my husband through mutual friends and ended up pregnant , December, 2022, and had my son in August of 2022. No. Oh my God. We are not in 22. We are. It would have been, God, a long time ago. Anyway, I had my son in 2011. I was like, wait a second. Did you say he was 13?
Right. I was like, the math is not math. I'm not, I'm, I'm not good at math, but that math.
What I'm going to say, we're going to summarize this and not put any numbers. I ride horses for a reason is I really didn't plan on getting married or having kids. But the way my life has unfolded, it has really worked out for me and Jane and our relationship because I have my three kids now that are Sam is 13.
My twins are seven turning eight and they're independent. And so when I needed to be around, she was riding at the time and now we've kind of transgressed to her writing less and me writing more has been an onward. curve. And, so now it's kind of exciting to say, okay yeah, I'm going to move forward with this and [01:00:00] make me become a professional, make my own business.
I don't know. You don't have to say it with all of that hesitation. Well, it's hesitation because I'm. Just a surprise that I'm doing it. Also if anybody wants to send their horse to Ashley for distraction or sensitivity training, just bring it to Windora during the fall season. And her kids will gather up all the leaves that they can find and get on top of the biggest hammock jump they can find.
Oh my goodness. And throw leaves off of it while you're trying to jump. No, no, they're going to hide underneath it and bury the leaves. And then jump over the leaves on top of it. Hey, it worked. It was, it was great. Well, we just want to kind of wrap up this episode a little bit, even though I feel like we could talk to you forever.
I can always come back. Yes. Exactly. Also I was just going to mention that, the Olympics is not five star, so there is still a chance. I was going to say, there's still hope. You know, that's a whole nother thing that somebody asked me, you don't want to do five star?
Really? And I was like no. I have so many things in my life right now. It's a little bit like going intermediate. That was a big pill to swallow. I don't really have time to do it right now. I have a horse, but oddly enough, I don't have time because I have too many other things I'm doing. So those are all hard life things, you know, that you have to make these decisions and you can't do everything always.
It doesn't mean you can't do things, but you can't always do exactly what you want to do. And I haven't hung my hat up from Intermediate. I just said, you know, this year, I don't have the time or focus. So I'm going to just pause it and I'll come back to it. I think it's been interesting talking to some of the professionals that we've spoken with over the last year and realizing how there's just so many different paths to achieve your goals and that it's not linear, like it's going to be dynamic.
And sometimes those things are physical, mental, it could be your horse. It could be having to sell a horse because you just need to keep your business going. And so I think it's really reassuring for everybody. coming through the industry to see that there are many paths to success and success is a personal thing.
It's not measured by anybody else's viewpoint or by, ribbons or points. It's a deeply personal thing. So why do you roll your eyes when you say ribbons? Because I'm sitting below a literal shrine of gem. And photos of him from various shows. . But anyways, just kind of piggybacking on that just to pick your brain a little bit about some advice and getting involved with thoroughbreds and you yourself for. Somebody interested in working with off the track thoroughbreds, what's some advice that you would give them, just some basic advice whether they're trainers, adopters, or just somebody wanting to spend time with thoroughbreds?
I would say that, see if you like the horse, how you interact with it, and then, like any relationship, they take a little time to work through some things, and you have to learn how to be, in a relationship with your horse, and I know it sounds kind of silly, but you have to figure out buttons and reactions and.
The patience it takes to go through these because thoroughbreds are sensitive. So some are more reactive than others Okay, well that that one didn't work and I touched on it a little bit about my horse best things in life that sometimes they need Time of just repetition for development and not the pressure of okay We're gonna go do this and we're gonna do that Well, everybody else is doing this with their horse and I need to be doing it each horse is different and they all take a different way, but don't let the outside pressures or, well, I saw somebody doing this, so I'm going to do it.
You know? Yeah. Try everything once, but also think about your horse and what could be better, you know, the best thing for it. Yeah. And that some take longer than others. And just because it's not there yet, doesn't mean it won't get there. You know, their horses never say never. So kind of the biggest thing is see if you like the horse and then you have to try.
in the notes that we gave to you, one of the things that you wrote down was that when you start working with them to realize that they really enjoy having a purpose. And I don't think I could have said it better about thoroughbreds. I think that whether that's, you're just playing with them on the ground or doing something with them under saddle or, you know, Whatever it might be, they really do like to do something.
Yeah. Well, they've gone from, working every day at the track in some form to then, you know, people say, Oh, yeah, you know, turn them out, let them down. Well, yes, you need to for sure. But that's completely changing what they've been doing and, so they've gone from having a job to doing nothing.
And how, as people, how do we think about that? You know, you get a little stir crazy. And you find things to do and so they need the letdown physically, but mentally it's very good to do things with them. Lunge them, long line them, you know, little things that they're going to enjoy because you're interacting with them.
And again, I think that. Yes, you can put a horse out in the field for six months and it'll be fine. And it might be silly, but you know, that's horses. So they love having that purpose. And that's kind of integrated into the thoroughbred. I feel like yeah. One instance, I'm going to keep going here.
I actually started a very well bred two year old for Mrs. Moran and she never saw the track a day in her life. And I always joked that when I got on her, she wanted me to get on her like a cowboy, like at a Gallop, just like get to work and let's go. We're going, we are going. And she never even saw the track.
So they definitely have that in their blood is what I would say. That they, they want to get [01:06:00] gone already, you know, and they're all different. Not all of them are like that, but it's in there, that workhorse, whether they're at the track or not. Yeah. I've met very few that have poor work ethic.
Yes. So it can happen though. Yeah. Yeah. I'm usually thankful for that day. Finally, where can our listeners find more information about you, about your business, and how can they get in touch with you if they're interested in training or any of your services?
So I'm on Facebook. She's a professional. That was the hardest question to answer. I know, it's like, oh. How do people get in touch with you? You're worse. You're worse than I am about like self promotion. People are like, do you have a car? And I'm like, no, stop talking to me. If you're looking for information on s Equestrian, you can find it on Facebook, Instagram, and I also am on TikTok. I have a website, sbr equestrian.com. That has all my information. Oh, and you also if you're local to area two specifically the Southeastern Pennsylvania region, Ashley is running a series of really fun winter clinics in which you can bring your horse and a sense of humor.
And she will try to teach you and bring your dragons out. It's okay. Does that mean we're going with your horse, Niamh? No, I can't. I have a photo shoot on Sunday and it's the Eagles game. So well, I'm sure there are more weekend too. Oh, okay. Well then I'll come to that one. Yes. I wanted to come this Sunday and then we're recording Saturday and then I have a photo shoot Sunday midday and it has to be done in time for one of the people to be back in time for the Eagles.
And I would also like to watch the Eagles play so. That was quite a game last weekend. It was. With the snow. And I was like, wow, that'd be so cool. I'm so glad I'm not. Oh my gosh.
Looks pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah, I know. My husband's a big football fan, so I can tolerate it. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your story and expertise. Yes. And we have one last question. And there's only a one word answer. What's one word you would use to describe an OTTB?
Regal. Ooh, I like that one. Oh, wait, we actually do have one additional last question and it's a one word answer as well. Wait, it can't be. Are you a professional? No, it's not. It's it came in from an anonymous listener. When they found out that I was recording this episode with you and the question was, who is your favorite student?
June Hillman, is that you? I guess we'll have to find out later. So do I have to answer who's my favorite student? No, but you have an answer. No, I love teaching. I have to say, I feel really lucky to enjoy it as much as I do. And I love watching my students develop and find their tools and communicate better with their horses.
I find it very rewarding and I feel very lucky that I find it so much rewarding. I don't know why. As someone who gets to watch you teach fairly often and has been one of your students, you're you're very fun to watch teach for sure. Well, all right, well, I guess that's good. , you're gonna like take your website down as soon as we get off this call.
You're like, oh. She's going to go into witness protection. It's fine. Disappears from all social media. Right, right. She's never happened. You have to look for the black and white helmet cover and then you know it's me. That's true. That's true. Well, to our listeners, thank you so much for joining in or tuning in.
To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. Be sure to check out Sunbriar Equestrian and support the incredible work that Ashley, parentheses, the professional, is doing. If you liked what you heard today, please leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts.
It really helps people find Our podcast, you can follow OTTB on tap on TOK and contact us with interview candidates and topic suggestions at OTTB on tap. com. We love hearing from you until next time. Cheers. Cheers.