Ep 46: Jessica Redman on the Hot Topic of PPEs, OTTB Buyer Trends & 2024 Price Observations

Ep.46 Jessica Redman on the Hot Topic of PPEs, OTTB Buyer Trends & 2024 Price Observations
[00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to the next episode of OTTB on tap. I'm Niamh and I'm Emily. Hey Niamh, what's on tap today? Today we're checking in with Jessica Redman of Benchmark Sport Horses. Wonderful. We love picking Jessica's brain about everything OTTB and as one of, if not the top reseller in the United States of TTBs, we really value her lending her time and expertise to us. For previous episodes with Jessica, you can take a look at episode number five, where we talk about how to be a great buyer. Episode eight, where Jessica talks through her assessment process and how to approach that first post track ride.
And finally, episode 13, where we talk all about price and the value that purchasing through a trusted reseller brings. Also, please be sure to check out our website, www. ottbontop. com to sign up for our newsletter. So you can be the first to know about bonus content, upcoming episodes, and more. Welcome Jessica.
We are so excited to have you back on the show. Good to be back. . We're going to chat about trends that you're seeing this year. Like buyer trends, pricing, and.
It's the often taboo topic of pre purchase exams. , so the first thing that we wanted to talk about is something we're calling buyer trends. So I'm just curious if anything has changed or if you're finding a certain type of horse. This year versus previous years is getting any more attention. Obviously we know the 17 hand gray is always going to fly off the shelf.
Is there any hope for that small chestnut mare? Yeah, I would say the market is strange right now. Most of the people that I know that are in it being able to predict what's going to sell is so hard right now. I couldn't tell you why things are selling and what is going to sell.
I will think Oh, I love this horse. It's going to get so much attention and then nothing. And then this other horse that I'm like, Oh, it's cute. It sells right away. I'm like, I give up. I give up thinking I know anything because everything I think I know is not applying. So I think it's still just comes down to the same, just being able to market your horse as well.
Do good pictures, do good videos and, just show them off the best you can. But as far as what is hot on the market right now, I couldn't tell you because I don't know. I have all different kinds of horses in my barn and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason why certain things sell versus another, obviously stuff like a dark day with Chrome goes pretty quickly.
But I just sold a chestnut mare, but she's lovely. And just made a little video showing that this thing is so quiet going around on a long range. So you just have to really highlight what you think the horse's strong suit is and, hope that somebody, will be attracted to that.
Am I wrong in thinking that you've strayed away from the free videos and the free jumping? So I'd always do free videos. I don't do as much. I can't free jumping is really hard. It's really hard. You need eight people to do it. I think that's what people don't understand is that it takes , a large quantity of people to do it.
It normally takes a few sessions to get the horse to even understand it. And right now are at least the footing. This year has been extremely challenging. It's so dry. It's so hard. And my area that I have for my free jumping , it's not really a ring.
So it's got clay footing and it's just very hard. Don't know. I don't love free jumping. I personally, it's just I hate doing it. I hate doing it. Yeah. I think it can frazzle horses. I think it's challenging to do. It takes a lot of people to do. And quite frankly, it's just more time efficient for us to just get on the horse and pop it over a couple of jumps.
I feel like it's also a really good way to injure a horse that you have that can get hurt. It is because it's like, they don't have a clue what you're asking them to do. And, it's a fact finding mission, but I don't think it necessarily translates at all under saddle.
It doesn't. And free videos also don't necessarily. So I think that's it's a great piece of information. And it's fun for me to challenge myself. , I'm super weird, which I totally admit I'm so weird. So when I get new horses in, I like to look at them and then guess how they're going to move in the free area.
So we do a little Oh, which one do you think is going to be the best? So it's just fun for us. And then you get to discover. But what's so interesting is that sometimes it has no correlation to how they look under attack. Yeah. And I think that's what is so fascinating about the free areas that, A horse can look super fancy, loose, and really not be fancy at all under saddle, or they can look like a donkey in the free area.
Cause they're running around with their head up, not paying any attention and then you get on the horse and you can put it together. And you're like, wow. Or they won't move in the free area and then you get on them., I could tell you all my thoughts on free videos and why I think they frustrate me because.
It's how people interpret them. You're taking this horse that probably ran a week ago. You're turning it loose in an area and you think you're getting information based off what they're going to do out there. It's a total bunch of crap. That's all I'm going to tell people is it means nothing. What that horse bucking, running, doing, it rarely has anything to do with how they to ride, work around.
They all get out there and look like weird horses and people are like, Oh my God, the horse cross cantered it. Did you see did this? It looks lame. It looks neurologic. And this is why I don't want to make these stupid videos because horses running wild loose, they do that dumbest looking shit.
Like they do. Come on. We know they cross canter. They [00:06:00] canter on the wrong leads. They go with their head straight in the air. They stop and spin. They do all kinds of stuff. They canter bunny rabbits, pogo sticks. Sometimes there's no real canner that ever happens in my videos.
And, this is normal. And it's not a good way to evaluate courses. If people need it, fine. I still do it, but I don't think it means anything. I think it probably means more to people that actually resell horses. That was one of those things where if you look at horses jogging, the thing that makes me wanna pull the trigger on buying a horse is that little inkling of I bet that thing can remove really nicely, in a free area.
Some do. Some do. Yeah, it some are just. so much nicer under saddle. I'd say most of the time it goes that horses are always nicer under saddle. It's few and far between that horses are nicer in the free area than they are under saddle. I'm always working on that theory.
It's like a little challenge to myself to try to figure out like, Why certain things are what, but I just think, you can give a course a little direction and you can, put it together a little bit. They always can or normally under saddle. They rarely get a true canner in the free area.
Yeah. Isn't that so hard? Cause the pogo stick thing was the best. Cause it's they don't separate their hind legs. They will like,
sometimes I'm watching them and I'm like. What in the heck is going on right now? Nobody would buy that horse if you were just to post that video and no riding video, they wouldn't be able to understand that. That's just how they move. They're excitable. They have Niamher been asked to move this way.
Stacy doesn't do free videos cause she doesn't have an area to do it and she sells her horses just fine. So I'm like, is it really necessary? I don't know. I get a lot more like I would much rather know how that horse is under saddle. That's much more meaningful to me, but to each their own, one ride on a horse and I can give you so much more information, a lot, I get a lot of information from the free videos, but
it doesn't always tell you like how they're going to behave and what their canner is going to be like under saddle and that kind of stuff. But I think it can show you what the movement might be like down the road. Yeah, for sure. And what kind of buyers are you seeing this year? Is there a balance between pros and amateurs?
I know you spoke before about not having as many professionals or upper level professionals buying your horses, but any, Patterns this year in terms of that. Yeah, I'd say it's about the same. Most of my customers are amateurs, , I have some good relationships with professionals.
It's just, I think it's harder for pros to buy in the way that my business operates, which I can understand. I understand why that can be hard because you're not going to get a chance to sit on some of these nicer ones, the super high quality ones, when they get posted, they get so much attention.
I just don't think they stay on the market long enough for people to feel comfortable, with that buying process. And, but then I questioned that because I don't know. I guess people go over to Europe to shop and they sit on horses over there. So I'm always curious some must buy off videos, but I don't know how well that works.
I'm not really tuned into that. Do you think in terms of that process, do you think the pros and this may be a sensitive question, but do you think the pros almost expect if they're a big name that you should hold the horse until they can come see it? Yeah. Yeah. When I was young and I was starting my business.
I really struggled with that. But I came to realize that it's very easy for people to , use their name to take advantage of you. And, I'm not a pro in terms of writer, but I'm really good at what I do. And I value my skill set. So you might be really good at what you do. And that's awesome.
But I like to think that I'm really good at what I do. It's just two different ways of looking at it. You can be a pro writer, but I'm like, this is all I do, eat, sleep, just, this is all they do. Yeah. You're an expert in your field, which is different than, and evaluating just because you're a pro rider does not mean you can see potential in young horses.
It's very hard to evaluate them or even from that. All of it. All of it. And what we're able to do in our ride videos, is honestly not often reproduced by people that come here to try horses. It's very few and far between just because it's a special skill set. You develop that over time.
I have great pros that I work with, but I don't know I think it's they have their own ways of doing things. And I have, obviously we all have our own niche and I don't know where they buy their, I know we spoke about this in one of our previous episodes together, but are you feeling like the forthrightness of amateurs is becoming more of a thing where people are coming in and really speaking to you in a way that says A lot about who they are as a rider and their expectations of what they can ride.
I know you mentioned before, people coming in and maybe overestimating their abilities or wanting to be a little overhorst in some ways. And so I'm just curious if that's changed at all, or people being a little bit more realistic about their goals and things like that. No, it's definitely still the case.
I think it's always. Yeah, just the challenging part. Again we talk a lot about it, but bringing along a young horse and I'm not just saying like a third bride, like any young horse is a skillset that's learned. And I don't often think that, people can really appreciate that.
It's until you sit on a young horse and you're like, wow, there's a lot of things that maybe I'm missing or, you just, get on and you're like, I'm not as secure as I thought I would be, bringing along this level of greenness. And for me, sometimes it's hard for me to appreciate because I don't consider Thoroughbreds green.
They walk, trot, canter, they steer, they, [00:12:00] people say, Oh, I don't know how you guys get them jumping so quick. And we're not pressing them. We're jumping cross trails or two foot or logs. This is just normal for these guys. But again, that comes down to comfort level and just the fact that we sit on so many.
so frequently, I think what people are attracted to is the big fancy, expressive, powerful moving, and they don't often need those kinds of horses. And I think that's where it becomes so hard as a seller to do your best to be honest, but also, you can only go off what somebody's telling you.
And you have to weigh that out. So I think that's the challenge. I don't ever want people to get horses home and think, boy, I'm really over horse. This is way too much, but does it happen? Sure. I think it happens probably more than people like will admit, I sold my horse that I had for a long time and I'm thinking about getting another horse.
And, it's something I'm like struggling with because. What I rode 10 years ago is not what I'm can ride right now. Yeah. I have to be realistic. Yeah. And that even me going through this process is hard 'cause my eye wants this , do I need this? Tell me about it. Jessica. I went through that two years ago with the horse that I bought where I was so hard shopping is peace horse and I'm very convinced that I really want that horse.
I really do. He's still in my barn 'cause I've refused to put him on my website. Cause I really think I need him and I want him, but I really think in the back of my head, I know I probably should not own that horse. So I think that is where we all struggle. And I understand that. And I try to talk people through that because I know my horses pretty well.
And I can tell you in a couple of rides yeah, this horse probably going to be perfectly fine. If you ride it three days a week, because let's face it, most of us who have full time jobs and have a lot going on, that's normal. We're probably going to ride three days a week. But if I have something that I think it needs six days a week, I'm going to be like, I don't think that's the worst for you.
Because if you're not going to write it six days a week, it's probably not going to go well. And I just think you have to understand that. Yeah. And be real. And it's hard being real. It's really hard. I have to ride three horses for the pre purchases tomorrow. And I know I can do this, but I just, you're out of practice.
It's yeah, not the same level of cocky confidence that I had. I know it was helpful when Emily and I did this together because, Emily was a professional and I was very much an amateur, I would often, I'd be talking to the potential. Buyer, sometimes , they would ask me was this a horse that you've ridden?
Cause they knew the roles that we played. And, sometimes I would be like, no, this horse was, is not for me. Yeah. And, I think I downplay any ability I have , in that regard. But I think. It's really important to go into those scenarios and thinking about your lifestyle.
Do you have a good trainer that you can reach out to? And it's a shame in a way that you can't have some sort of binding contract where you can be like, you said you were going to put this horse in full training and you did not do that. Yeah. It's, it turns into a messy situation. I had one of those, not too long ago and it's uncomfortable and I still think that I did the right thing.
Cause it was very in writing and it was in emails and it was in text and it was in a phone call. I was like, Hey, this is a really nice horse, but this horse needs this. And I don't know how I could have done things different, than what I did. Cause I felt like I tried to do everything I could to, show the horse and talk about the horse.
And some people just see big and beautiful and fancy and it just overrides, or maybe they don't stick with that program that they tell you that they're going to do, or maybe their trainer really isn't that qualified or that there's so many scenarios of where it can go wrong and. It's easy to place the blame on the seller or the buyer in some situations, and sometimes it's just horses.
It didn't work out. I've seen plenty of horses go from certain people's programs where they were really good horses and they end up somewhere else and it turns into this nightmare and there's so much blame passed and you go, sometimes it just doesn't work out and it's nobody's somebody's fault.
And I think the important thing in that conversation is , Thinking about the horse first and wondering what has changed that has made this horse so different than what you tried and things like that. And environment plays into that. There's just so many factors. My bar manager likes to say that you don't take home the horse that you tried.
It's very rare that the horse that you tried, in the situation is going to be identical when you bring it home, because there's no way to replicate. It's experience and it's in its former home, that could just be turnout or field dynamics or, yes I think a lot of things are going to be true, but that you can't expect for it to be exactly the same as it was when you have to be patient to, I think, people expect things to , just be easy right away and not all horses are like that.
I get a lot of horses that I really like, it, it sometimes takes a couple of weeks of us riding on them for it truly to come together. And I think, when they get into their new homes, is that behavior that we first saw going to crop up or have we fixed it completely?
And there's sometimes I don't always know because. I'm like it's been going so good here, but when it first came, it did X, Y, and Z, so I think it hasn't done that, in so long that it probably won't. It could. Of course those are individuals.
And I think new places add a lot of stress, again, I am thinking about this Irish steeplechase horse. , he ran the day before I got him. And he's really weird with the mounting and Irish horses that come from Ireland they're just , I don't know.
They're very strange individuals. I've had a bunch of them, these imported horses and they do things. Very much their own way. And they're just unique. And I really liked this horse, but I'm like, I think you're messing with me a little bit. I do. I think he knows exactly what he's doing and he's like you don't know what you're doing So I'm gonna try this and then I have to sit there and think about whether he is Deliberately being a punk or [00:18:00] is he really anxious?
So I'm trying to figure out how I'm handling this horse like today See and we do all these weird things like to accommodate our horses that most people wouldn't think about so when they're anxious about the mountain Blah , this horse doesn't like treats. So treats don't work. So we are giving them grass.
So I feed them grass and Stacy's getting on and most horses you would just walk off, right? You get on and you walk them forward. No, this horse doesn't like that. We let him stand still, which is against everything that I normally do, because most scurvy rides, you always just walk them off.
That makes him more anxious. What works for him, you get on, you just be talking, you give him a little grass, you tell him he's a good boy, and he's Oh, okay, I'm a good boy. He's fine. I don't know what went on with them mounting, whether they were just flying up and you just go and he's gone probably.
So again, it's what people know , I don't think this works bad. I just think we don't know him. We're having this, get to know each other session. And I consider that to be normal stuff. But what other people think that's normal because these are the things that , you just go through.
And it's also tough when it goes against all of the things that are in your arsenal of tried and true tricks that you use for problem solving. And , Oh, okay, this one's a little bit of a head scratcher. Let's think outside the box here. Like you said every part of you wants to just lead the horse forward and get it moving.
But , maybe he was just He's just walk me forward. And we did it once and then it didn't go well. And I was like, let's just stand here for a minute and let him breathe. And funny enough, I had another horse from Ireland, another imported steeplechase horse that was the same way.
He was the same way. if you just let him stand there for a second and think about it, then he'd walk off fine. Otherwise, if you try to walk off, he just rodeo bronc. Don't ask me why. Don't know. We worked him through it, but it's like, why? Yeah. I don't you know, horses are individuals. So it's you have to figure out what makes them tick and not expect them to adapt to your program, but you have to adapt your program to them.
Yeah. And That's hard for some people. And so that's what I think. Sometimes I say in that first ride, I can give you so much information because , most people would not want to work with this horse. But then I think I've read a lot of articles about Bruno , that Boyd rides.
And he said, when he first got that horse, They could he couldn't get on that. Oh my God. His previous rider did fine with him But his groom has this special routine just to get Boyd on that horse I'm like, that's fascinating. Yeah, and they've talked about it in her interviews and I'm always like see that is what I want to know that These horses that are like running around the top levels they have their quirks just like everything else.
Oh my gosh. I remember there was an upper level horse, Fabian. He looked a lot like my bomb. He's a big black horse. He had a little emotional support mini that got everywhere with him. And I remember being at Jersey fresh and being like, Oh my God, there he is. Cause you just see the groom walking around with the little mini with her.
And I was like, Oh, he can't go anywhere without, but so cute. I wanted to ask you if anything has changed in terms of your turnaround time for horses at your farm. How long are you tending to hang on to horses these days? I think the market is a little slower right now. I saw your comments about it being election year.
And I think that definitely is is the case that it's slower. I always keep a close eye on my books and it's interesting because I'm selling. probably less horses, but for higher prices. So that's interesting to me. But I think that's because the price point of horses coming off the track is so high.
So you have to adjust for that. So yeah, I do think they're staying a little bit longer than maybe they had in the past. It just depends on the horse. So certain horses, Can't keep them in my brain. Some horses, they're here for a month. Don't know why no rhyme or reason.
I mean I feel like even if you it sounds like at least it's balancing out for you because I have heard that about Election year people are being more conservative with their finances and their spending If you are selling less, but for more hopefully it's It still works out and everything balances out in the end.
And then our next topic is always controversial. How are you finding pre purchases to be going this year? We haven't really, I don't think we've really touched too much on Kissing Spine. Is that still a big concern with buyers? Oh my god. Where do we begin? It's very tough for me.
I really struggle and I fully like I've talked about it and I know people like they either what I have to say or they just absolutely hate me because of it. And I'm totally fine with that. And I'm comfortable on my stance, but I am seeing so many horses being advertised online for free because of kissing spines or people getting rid of their horse because of kissing spine.
It's. It's a hot topic and it's a huge thing and I don't think it's going away. I have so many vets that come in here that do pre purchases and we pick their brains because it's very important and it's very interesting. I think it's a huge deal in horses right now, not just thoroughbreds across any love, any horse sales, warm bloods, any of it, all of it.
It's where people are focused. It's a huge thing. If a horse has an issue, it's got to be its back. It's become it's gotten a little out of control, at least in my view. Most of all these really good sport horse vets that are coming in are just saying that horses that are asymptomatic, it often doesn't mean anything when they have changes in their, in their back.
It's not to say that they can't or won't down the road. So I think that is what becomes [00:24:00] difficult to assess, right? It's like you are coming to do a pre purchase on a horse that is sound and not showing any symptoms, has no back pain, is using its neck, using its back, using its top line at the date of their pre purchase.
But you take these films and holy crap, it's got four spots in its back. What does that mean? What does it mean? And the research isn't necessarily there. I think yet to say what it does mean for horses in the future. So I think that's the problem is that we can appreciate that. I don't know, what are they saying?
80 percent of horses have kissing spine. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot. And people just think, Oh, it's the third bird is you. No, it's horses in general. So was this always there? Are we just now more focused on it? What does it mean? I don't know that there's enough research to say what it means.
I wish we could fast forward to 10 years down the road and have more of those factors and rubrics to create some sense of it all. Because, you're also thinking about are we talking about. From the wither to like the first couple of vertebrae, are we talking about in the middle of the back?
Are we talking about just behind the saddle? Which one of those things and it's very objective and it, there's just too much gray area. And then, like you say, there's just not enough information to make it such a polarizing issue for people. Yeah. And it's challenging because especially pros and people at the upper level, they don't want to go around being like, yeah my horse has kissing spine because, who's to say that they won't have to sell that horse, at some point.
So I'd think it's a bit of a taboo subject for all of those who of us who know this horse has kissing spine and that horse has kissing spine and it's competing and it's doing all these things and it's not having any issues. How do we balance the fact that most of these, most horses have kissing spine with these vettings where people want a perfect bet?
I don't know. And I don't know what it means for the industry and for horse sales. I honestly don't know. I've heard so many people that are so frustrated and so stressed about it because they feel if the horse has kissing spine, that it basically has no value. And it's almost like an untouchable horse.
It's a while to think about. ? And what do we do? So we just euthanize all these horses that have kissing spines? Because that's what I don't understand. All these horses have kissing spine. And what do we do with them? As a whole, the horse industry has to decide are we going to accept that these horses can go on and have careers or are we just going to say, no, they, they can't.
I don't know. Yeah. And I think that also there's a idea, in most resellers and breeders and everything else is this is this a. A fad, so to speak, is this something that is just, of the time, is this something that 10 years ago, nobody even thought about because nobody was x raying backs, was it there and nobody even found it.
And, so there is a little bit of that not knowing sometimes is better than knowing. I don't know. In that realm, do you find that buyers are being more or less picky outside of even kissing spine? Yeah, Definitely more picky. I think vettings are very and I, again, I'm not sure if it's because It has to do with the price point that I sell horses for.
But I think I hear it, from a lot of my friends that do sales and that people do have unrealistic expectations. Course we see it all the time because, you're on Facebook and in search of ads are like, Oh, I want 16 plus and it's four to six and low force, but it has to vet clean, no maintenance, no injuries.
And that's unrealistic. Because for me, okay, I might have a horse that has an old bow in, in the mid four range. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that horse. It's perfectly fine horse that will do any job that you want it to do. But people will shy away from that because it's not perfect enough.
So I think people have to figure out where the market is right now because the market has changed. The prices of these horses on the track is astronomical. So you have to figure out what you can live with. Like it's gone. Or the day is that you're getting those horses, for those kind of low for price range.
Unless you have a lot of connections and I think, a lot of people reach out to me and I try not to be rude about it, but I say to them, I pay that if not more for the horses that I buy. And I just say it to be honest, a lot of what I buy. And I don't know if people would be surprised.
There are 3, 500 there. Sometimes I'll pay up to 5, 000 and then I have to ship it and then I have to do his feet and work and do its teeth and ride it and do all the things. Yeah. And you're not even including the, like we talked about it, that on undefinable dollar amount of risk.
Exactly. As you're talking about kissing spine I'm thinking , In the past, an educated horse person could look at the outside of a horse, right? And you could be like, oh, it has an old bow, or it looks maybe it's an old bow. It has a splint. It's been pin fired. It's got some ankles. .
I don't know anybody that can look at a horse and say, That horse has kissing spine, that's the thing. And I think that's what vets are really frustrated about. And I think that's what frustrates me about when I hear people spout off this stuff on the forums and on Facebook is you could tell that horse has something wrong with this back.
No buddy can tell that. It is like a challenge that I challenge myself to is to guess whether or not a horse will have kissing spine or not. And it is not a fun game to play, but there is literally, I don't care how good you are. You can't know. And I'm talking vets that are top sport horse vets.
They will be like, I bet this horse's back is going to be great. And we X ray and we're like, damn, [00:30:00] his back is there. Because what does it mean? You're looking at a sound horse doing its job, using itself. It's a beautiful mover. It goes over its back. It, rounds his back. It has a beautiful top line.
It has no pain. What do the films mean? How could you tell that the horse was going to x ray the way it did by looking at the outside of the horse? So that's the risk factor that we're accepting is, that there is no way nowadays to know whether or not a horse will have a kissing spine.
I cannot predict. And I say that wholeheartedly from a lot of practice is that I can't. I honestly can't. I have horses that I would tell you, Oh, that's where supply has kissing spine. And then we x ray it and it doesn't. I'm always wrong. Yeah. So what does that mean? I don't know. Nobody knows.
I don't know. And you just don't know. And , When people talk about being able to vet horses at the track, you guys know trainers at the track are not going to let you vet those horses. It's very rare that a trainer on the track is going to hold a horse long enough for somebody to vet it, and whether a track vet has equipment that is strong enough to shoot a bat.
The quality of radiographs you're getting from that. If that is your thing, And that is what you're concerned about. It's going to be extremely difficult for you to buy a horse on the track because it's just getting those things to line up and you're just going to piss off every trainer. And guess what?
They're not going to talk to you again. Pretty much. Before we wrap up this episode, Jessica, I wanted to ask you if you've had anything that any kind of funny stories or any outtakes from buying and selling horses this year, anything that stands out to you that you'd want to share with us. Besides, the scandalous Chronicle of the Horse.
It's all fine. It's tough. I really a lot of people in your corner. I hope you know that I think it's really hard in this day of age to, Put yourself out there and I think about it on a daily basis, how difficult it is to have to publicly post pictures and videos and put yourself out there for like public consumption.
It's difficult. Mentally some days are challenging and I like to think I'm pretty tough and I have pretty thick skin. But, I love what I do and I try to do things the best way. I think I try to be ethical and I try to do the right things. But, when you sell such a high volume of horses, you will always have, things.
That don't turn out as people want them and you do the best you can but it's just sometimes The mental aspect of it. It consumes you I have to try to Stay away from it because it I am I can let it get to me, which I try not to but iNiamhitably you want to know what people are saying about you.
In some ways you have to know because you want to be better. You always want to be always growing and everything. Yeah. But then you also have to think these people don't really know, like half of the people that had negative things to say, have no idea who I am. They've Niamher been here. Everybody's very brave behind a keyboard.
Yeah. I do think that a lot. And I try to stop myself when I start to criticize other people. And I think no, you don't know that situation , so I think sometimes you have to step back and think about that, cause again, it's hard and buying horses, the people that I interact with it's.
I think it's what it's very, it's so many different types of people, racetrack people are so different than sport horse people and straddling that world and doing that. It can be challenging. Making sure that you keep everybody happy and do all the right things. And I find that part sometimes very challenging because the way that the racetrack world works, I think is.
I just think most sport horse people just have no, yeah you're saying about, how taxing this can be. Just in a regular sales program, say you've got 20 horses for sale over the span of a year, the mental and emotional fatigue that resellers take on even in a small program is enormous because for every one horse that you have for sale, you might have 25 people inquiring about it.
And you work a full time job on top of running this incredibly successful business. And I don't think that's appreciated when you have those couple of naysayers and people that want to be online bullies realizing that you're already probably. So mentally taxed and fatigued by just trying to run a business that those negative comments really make you wonder why you're even doing this in the first place.
It does because I love the horse part of it. And when people say things about the way we ride our horses or the way we do things with the horses, or I'm just your what's your resume? What's your resume? What are you doing? Oh. And and sometimes I think to myself.
What are you doing to better the sport? Please tell me how you're contributing. What's your positive contribution? And it bothers me because I don't like the word when people say, Oh, you guys are flippers. I hate that.
If anybody came and witness and you guys notice you're in it yes, we got to run a business. Like it you don't survive the hardships, I just put down a horse the other day and I had almost 10, 000 in that horse. , you can't do the right thing by your horses if you're not being successful.
So when people talk about, money and I'm like, why is it taboo to make money? You have to make money to be able to do things well and do right by your horses. I don't understand. So for me, I just squash it down. Cause you come here, see the horses, they literally get anything they need.
They go as fast or slow as they need and everything gets done [00:36:00] the right way. If I don't think it feels right, then it's not right. And it's just the way I believe in doing things. I just think people don't know. It's easy to think, something about somebody or a business and you probably only know a fraction of it, and I'd really love.
reading about these interviews that they do with these upper level writers. I find it fascinating because we don't get to see behind their businesses because they don't have to put stuff out as publicly as maybe a sales business does, right? Yeah. So it's so cool to hear. I love reading about, a lot of the British writers, I think, their social media I find it just fascinating.
They talk about their horses and they're so open about how naughty their horses are and , how badly behaved and all the things that they do. I just think it's so cool because, It's like something we can't talk about in like sales. I don't get to talk about how a horse started out like this, but then it, overcame this because being in a salesman, it's you just, it's going to come back to stuff out there for public consumption.
There's a push towards more transparency amongst all horse industries right now. And I really hope it keeps going in that direction because I think it's very powerful and I think it, it does help fill in the gaps for people's imaginations to know a little bit more, but you're always going to have those people out there that, it's, you are.
And it's funny to me how people get so offended about The prices that we ask for our horses I'm still like, I just don't understand it. Nobody would think twice about a 17 three hand warm blood selling for, 30, 000. But if I advertise a horse that's one week post track, that's beautiful and fancy and 17 three for, low fives.
It's like, how dare you? Yeah. And I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This horse is. Fabulous. Yeah. There's just like this group of people that's just You know, just can't seem to get over what, thoroughbreds can be sold for.
And I get something about they just came off the track and that's absurd. And you're just thinking where does it fit in with the current horse market? And the pricing and with other breeds of horses. And, I do some crossbreds here and there, and it's unbelievable how much those horses sell for very normal.
No, and the demand is just. insane and the prices are just normal. So I think we still have a long way to go when it comes to that. As far as like the resale side, the track prices are definitely up. I still find that a lot of my fellow resellers are really struggling to got the prices like, I don't know.
I think it's like the fantasy part of it. When you're buying something from the track, it's an unknown there will always be an appeal to that because limited information. It just excites people. And, It's the way it is. I understand, again, big risk, right?
Some of these courses I'm like, Oh yeah I like to think I'm good. I can't, I'm not that brave. I don't think I can do it. . Cause you guys do it. No, it's funny. Cause , even I've been tempted to maybe RRP makeover next year and we'll find one we like, and it's five grand.
And I'm like, I'm not doing that. I like to think I'm pretty confident and all the time. And I'm just like, I don't think I'm this brave. I'm not sure that I could do it. And now if you told me, you were able to send me one ride video, I'd be like, yeah, I'm on board, but I know how many things Just how many factors are involved.
I'm finding it fascinating because I look at some of the horses that are selling off the track and , somebody's out there buying them. And that unknown goes both ways, right? And I feel like the unknown so many times yes, you might get to unwrap your Christmas present and it's Spectacular.
There are so many unknowns. Sometimes you don't get to do. And I walked down this morning and I have all these new horses that just came in and I'm dumping in grain and I went that one's cribbing and I was like, what people don't understand and I don't know why this is that horses can be here for sometimes a week before they start to crib and it makes me.
bonkers because they don't crib and I, and then all of a sudden they start cribbing and they're like you said it had no vices. It didn't last week, but now it does. I don't know. Could it be ulcery? Yes. But I also think once they start to do it, it's just, and then you're like, did it really crib or was it not?
Yeah. Yeah. I hear that. Yeah. Stuff like that. Because people have hard rules and what you don't understand is that. It's most of the time you don't get that information about things on the track. And the environment makes a big difference too.
It's and maybe it didn't do it at the track. Maybe it does it now that it's in a barn full of horses. And you Niamher know. And sometimes what is important to sport horse buyers, would Niamher cross the mind of a race trainer. So they just don't. They don't think it's important because like I had a horse that come in and he's got a big sarcoid on his neck.
They didn't mention that. Oh, interesting for them. It's probably no big deal. Again, I don't think it's a big deal either, but I think some people would be taken back by that or a horse that's pin fired, right? No big deal for me. I'm just like, whatever, but I understand. But when I put that online, that the horse is like, Oh, I don't like that.
So all those little things that a race trainer might just forget to mention, because It's part of their world and they just think, Oh, this is normal. They're not being dishonest. They just, it's not what they're exactly like language. Yeah. Yeah. I bought the one horse and the guy called me, he's like real nice.
And he goes, just want to let you know, sometimes when I go into a saw, [00:42:00] he'll sideswipe at you. It's very unintentional, but he was super nice to just say FYI, now the horse hasn't done it at all. Probably just because he's turned out now. Bye. He was like really nice to be like, Hey, , I don't think he'd kick you, but he might do this.
And I didn't want you to be like, Surprise. Most of the time you Niamher get that information. No, it's really refreshing. And I just want to bookend our whole conversation here by saying in terms of the people that do have critical feedback for you and things like that, that the future of the thoroughbred, the off the track thoroughbred won't exist if it isn't for resellers.
So for the people that are quick to jump in and. Form criticism and have strong opinions about resellers in around the country and around the world, the thoroughbred will die out as a breed if there aren't people that are taking care of it from start to finish. And so I caution people to be a little bit more thoughtful about.
Doing things to draw negative attention towards aftercare and for thoroughbreds and to make them think like you said, maybe think about a way that you can positively help the thoroughbred aftercare industry and not just find a way to attract more negativity towards it because it has plenty of negativity already, the thoroughbred world.
Has plenty of that already. And I think so many of us are trying so hard to shine a positive light on the industry as a whole. And I think that's why we're here. That's why you're here. And I just really want to implore people to continue on that trajectory. Yeah, find some good to do. There are so many good people out there, and I always am just trying to draw attention to yeah, what these horses are like coming off the track, and that they're incredible, and these people have done so much.
an unbelievable amount of training and they make my job so easy. And I just think people more than anything would be shocked to see how well cared for, trained these horses are and how easy they are to restart. If there was anything I could say is just it's not like people think, I would love to just have an open house and do a day of showing people what first rides look like.
Cause I think it would just completely blow their mind that most of the time it's just Like getting on any other horse, there's no secrets behind it. These horses are so impeccably cared for and trained. I just think it's like the coolest thing ever. Jessica, before we get into the third hour of our recording.
We obviously need to have you on more often. We're going to be launching a Patreon that's going to have exclusive content where maybe you, we can talk even more openly about some of our strong opinions in the thoroughbred world. Thank you so much for joining us again. Emily, do you have any last remarks?
We did have one last question, but it's only a one word answer, which is what is one word you describe use to describe an OTTB? Okay. I don't think we asked you that one yet. Heart. I like it. Yes. Excellent. Awesome. All right.
Thank you so much for being on OTT Beyond Tap today. Listeners can find you at Benchmark Sport Horses on Facebook or your website, www.
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