Ep 30: "More Magnawave Please!": An Adult Ammy and her OTTB take on Lucinda Green, Alternative Communication, Rider Anxiety & more!

Ep 30: "More Magnawave Please!": An Adult Ammy and her OTTB take on Lucinda Green, Alternative Communication, Rider Anxiety & more!

 [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome back to OTTB on tap. I'm Niamh and I'm Emily. Hey Neib, what's ONTAP this week? This is the second installment of our rider recap of the Lucinda Green Clinic. If you remember from episode 27, OTTB ONTAP made a trek to the Lucinda Green Clinic held at Lockmoy Farm back in May. We intended to audit, learn, and get to know some of the riders there with OTTBs and almost half the participants were riding OTTBs.

So we're catching up with a few of the riders to hear about their experiences over the two day clinic. Our next writer has been on the podcast before, so getting to know her in person for me this time was awesome. Hi, Taylor. Welcome back. Thanks for having me back. Great to be here. Absolutely. Let's start off.

Can you give us a little refresher about your off track thoroughbred? Sure. Absolutely. So his barn name is Darcy. He's 10 years old now. His Jockey Club name was Clear Crossing. His show name now is CV's Eventing Rebellion. And I got him about two and a half years ago. Before that he was living the life with a professional.

He competed at Tuprelan but his, his trainer decided he'd prefer a life better bopping around the lower levels. And so that's what him and I are doing right now. I'm late to the game in writing in terms of inventing and competing. I only started doing this regularly about three or four years ago.

And so, yeah, Darcy is the teacher in this Echoing partnership for sure. He teaches me all this stuff. I think that definitely shined through a lot at the Lucinda Green clinic. I'd signed up for that clinic specifically. Well, I'm a huge fan of Lucinda Green and her cross country academy online and her TikToks and her videos,, and because I followed her previously, I knew her clinic was going to be a good test for us as a partnership and you know, a lot of new and different things and because Darcy is, such a, A wonderful creature and a perfect teacher.

He really shined in the clinic and took us through everything. So your experience at the clinic was a little bit unique. So we're just going to cover the first day of the clinic and then we're going to chat about some other fun things that you've been up to with Darcy. . So starting off had you written with Lucinda before this clinic, or had you actually been to a clinic where she was teaching?

No, I'd Niamher met her before. Niamher written in a clinic with her. And yes, I Niamher audited. I really just knew. her through her online presence and her cross country Academy. Okay. Awesome. And what level did you enter and what were you hoping to get out of this experience? I entered in the novice level and I was familiar with what to expect with the clinic with the style of exercises she likes to do.

And it would be very different. Different than kind of how I, you know, practice and school cross country previously. So I knew it was going to be a good test for both of us to kind of really attempt something, maybe a bit out of our comfort zone, if you will jumping smaller jumps, trotting jumps, jumping weird skinnies made of not traditional jump material.

Lucinda loves throwing that in her lessons in clinic. And so that was not stuff we had a lot of practice with. So I was really excited to kind of put ourselves through the test with all that. Yeah. And LockMoy for you is kind of your backyard. So I think when you're going into something like big clinic with a rider like Lucinda, that must have given you a little bit of confidence to know, I know the facility, I kind of know what the ground's like and you feel comfortable there.

So that probably helped set you up for success as well. And I shared with you my videos from when I participated in the clinic, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes. And that was super, super helpful because I felt like I got to study even more for the clinic. Yeah. Cause she changes the exercises up, but she does kind of keep some tried and true things core things are always the same with her clinics.

Yeah, absolutely. I felt like I could focus on being nervous about other things versus, you know, at least I knew what to expect. There's always something to be nervous about with. Course isn't in cross country. So , yeah, I enjoyed watching your video playlists on YouTube. Like a good study session.

Yeah, for sure. How did you feel going into the clinic? Like when you first got there, first met Lucinda and met the other riders that you were going to be participating with? So, I've definitely become a lot more comfortable with the clinic environment. I'm pretty new to clinics.

 I've only done a handful in my time and they've all been with Darcy. And usually I go into these clinics with these, legendary professional riders and I'm very intimidated by it. And I'm very self conscious and aware that I am always the least experienced in the group always.

Cause like I said, I got a very, Late start to writing and inventing. And so it was kind of nice and like you mentioned before it being at Lochmoy, Lochmoy completely feels like. home field advantage, whether it's clinics, schooling, or any of their events, because gosh, we're there so often.

And we're so lucky to have that in our backyard in Maryland. I'm actually going to go there tomorrow and help them set up for the big international event this weekend. So yeah, it's like home away from home.

And , with Lucinda, I did my homework. I followed her a lot online and I was definitely a little, nervous cause I know she's to the point she's direct and , that's what I'm here for. Like I go to these clinics, I don't want to be told that I'm riding well.

I do want to be told exactly everything I'm doing wrong so that I can improve. But that's still really intimidating and kind of nerve wracking. So that's in the back of my mind. But darcy and I have definitely become more comfortable in a clinic environment,

we've maybe done like half a dozen clinics in the past year, and so , that definitely helped. I'm glad this wasn't a first clinic situation for me, because, with the exercises being a bit so different than what we normally do, it kind of would have been , overwhelming. So, yeah.

To kind of tackle all that as a first clinic, but it's [00:06:00] a nice mix of nervous and exciting, nervous sided, I'll say. And what was your first impression of Lucinda when you finally got to introduce yourself and introduce Darcy to her and everything? Because she loves a thoroughbred. I know. And that's why I was so excited to show her Darcy.

I just want to be like, Look how amazing he is. And , I just wanted to show him off and just gush about him. But at the same time, she's so composed and she's like a cool cucumber. And I just felt a sense of awe being in her presence. Just being like, wow, that's her.

 She definitely has such a wonderful presence about her. And she's on point with her feedback and what she says. And Not just her exercises, but also there's clearly such a strong logic and thought process behind the exercises that she lays out and how she kind of progresses everyone through her clinics and her exercises.

Yeah. And I just, have so much respect for that skill set that just kind of, yeah, being in her presence was very just awe inspiring for sure. I, sometimes I can't believe that I was able to re arrive with both William Fox Pitt and Lucinda Greene within the same couple months at Lockhart.

 It's just crazy how lucky we are to be able to do that, so. Lucinda Greene is one of my, definitely one of my favorite adventures of all time. So I think what I love just being there. Yeah, exactly. When I looked back through the photos that I took of you, you're smiling so big, your face must have hurt by the end of the clinic.

I know it's been a good day when I come home and my cheeks hurt. My cheeks will literally be sore from just having a big smile on my face. One of my favorite moments, Niamh, of the clinic is when I was coming down that diagonal line and you were, photographing me front on, you were just so perfectly positioned that you were my perfect spot for maintaining the correct line through that, I was trying to do that on purpose for people to , just look at me and ride the line.

It was so perfect. And as soon as I turned to face the first fence, I saw you and I go, Oh my God, she's my spot. And I just, lit up and you capture that so beautifully in your photos. And it's my favorite moment. First thing I thought of, I was like, I just, I knew whatever happened next was going to be good.

So that's really cool. Well, let's talk a little bit about , the warmup that she had you guys do, which she was having you guys do your ready for trouble warmup routine. Can you explain a little bit about that? Cause I would say that your motto might be ready for trouble. Oh yeah. A hundred percent.

 When you're learning, and when you have no experience, like I do, you gotta be ready for trouble. I started working with a new trainer a couple months ago and I think I've fallen off like three times since I met her.

And the last time I fell off, she was like, Oh my God. She's like, I think , you're the person who falls off most of this barn now. You're like, I've only been there for two months. Yeah, exactly. I literally had like three like consecutive lessons with her where I literally just hit the ground.

Nothing bad. Just you know, me learning and being silly. Yeah. But yeah , it was that ready for trouble position that initially drew me to Lucinda's cross country Academy. I happened to fall upon a video about the ready for trouble position and with my riding style and my body style it just clicked with needing to understand how to approach cross country.

Can you explain that a bit more? , like I said, I'm late to the game in writing and one of the cardinal sins I commit day in, day out is throwing my body over a fence and go ahead of my horse. I feel like we can all resonate with that when you're learning to jump.

 So it wasn't until I kind of understood the ready for trouble position, which is keeping your shoulders up, your heels are truly in line with your shoulders. Your center of gravity is grounded in your riding position. And you just have to have discipline.

That's kind of how I can best describe it is having the discipline to maintain that position as you approach the fence and not give into the need to feel like you need to pick yourself up and your horse and throw yourselves over the fence. You have to trust the process.

And as you learn to trust the process, you start to fall into this ready for trouble position, because when your center of gravity is underneath you and your shoulders are up. If for some reason your horse wiggles up to the fence, maybe takes an unexpected hop to the side before he goes over, which my horse likes to do sometimes.

You're good. That ready for troll position puts you no pun intended in a better position to kind of deal with situations and say, if your horse, refuses a jump, if your shoulders are up, your center of gravity is back, Less of a chance you're going to, do one of those slow falls over the neck or over the jump.

I am a particular, I'm a specialist in that slow fall area. That's, that's 90 percent of my falls for sure. So ready for trouble position by Lucinda Green is much loved in my riding arsenal for sure. I think that may have made that photo from the William Fox Pit Clinic may have made our cover.

For the last podcast that you appeared in for Morning Fox Fit. Those shots were amazing. Those shots were amazing. So yeah, the photographer was perfectly placed and there's just this amazing succession of my body flying through the air. As Darcy ducked out a jump that he actually jumped the other direction two seconds before.

Well, and I think the ready for trouble thing, I think her sentiment with that too, not only does it put you in a good position for if your horse spooks or stops or, shies at something, but it also allows you to be in a position to do something when that happens. So you're not caught off guard and having to regain your balance.

You're already in a place of being really centered. And on top of your horse. So say the horse spooks, you're ready to apply an aid to [00:12:00] get it back on track versus fumbling around, you know? Yes, a hundred percent. Absolutely. Absolutely. So she had you guys doing the opening up your canter stride and , collecting up your canter stride and then eventually moving on to walk canter walk, or was it, or was it halt canter?

It was walk canter. It was walk, canter, halt. Yeah. And how was that? Honestly, that canter warmup, that was the most exhausting part of the whole, that was the most exhausting part of the entire clinic. Once we finished that, I was like, Oh my God, that's just the warmup. I'm so dead. It was also like a hundred billion degrees that day, right?

Oh yeah. It was so hot. I love working with Darcy at the canter. He's The most amazing rhythmic canner. So I love doing canner work with him. , he's so responsive. When you need to kind of package him up and find find the coffin canner or when you need to extend the stride, he's, so adjustable and so it's been wonderful for my learning and, trying to do that.

However, I will say it takes every inch of my body strength to do it. That was the most exhausting part of the of the clinic, but finding that adjustable stride and canner and control and bringing your horse to a halt, it's that adjustability, finding that with your horse is , so important cross country.

And so , it's the perfect warm up before you go out there for jumping fences. And so can you talk a little bit about the exercises that she had set up for you guys to work on? Because you referenced one of them. And , I have a great photo of you, like you said, coming through that exercise that seemed like an impossible line to ride.

And I know Marilyn, our last rider who talked about it, said the same thing from the side, it looked absolutely bonkers. And then once you like turned the corner and got on the line, you were like, there it is. But , talk about some of the exercises that she had you guys starting with and then how she built up the, the lesson.

Yeah. I have this very strange fear of jumping tiny fences. I know that sounds weird. I'm always the writer that complains about having to jump the log before, I jumped something else larger. Maybe it's because Darcy stopped a couple of times at small fences because I don't take him seriously enough and then he doesn't take it seriously enough.

So I was very nervous for the small fences with Lucinda's clinics. So , initially she has this kind of on this large serpentine jumping maybe an 18 inch vertical. And she has us all trotted initially. Area of writing that I'm a bad at and B do not care for is trotting jumps.

Darcy doesn't care for it either. And I'm very nervous about that, but you know, once we kind of just went one right after the other and Lucinda was just very quick and very on point with everyone's feedback. And so quickly we found a rhythm and with Darcy, once he understands kind of what the exercise is.

He's completely fine. But if it's, that first, maybe one to three jumps where he's figuring it out and because I'm figuring it out, I'm not riding as confidently. Right. Yeah. And he, oh gosh, , he feels that, if I have a teeny tiny hesitation for anything, I'm He feels it and he reacts.

It's something, him and I always have to continuously work on with our communication. And I was really curious to see how we did with tiny jumps, cause especially when they've been on course for a while and you find yourself in a rhythm and you come up to the smallest jump on course.

You just naturally stop paying attention. Don't take it seriously. Maybe take your leg off and boom, the horse goes out to the left. And it's just amazing how fast that happens. And that's always a lesson life consistently had to learn. So , my one goal was just to keep, my leg on the entire time just because the jump was small, I still needed to take it seriously.

Yeah. Another thing that Lucinda is really big on is not taking kind of a giant prep circle. Oh, yeah. When you approach a jump, don't do that. Don't do it. Don't, yeah. Don't, don't do that. And if I'm out schooling, what do I do? Oh, Taylor, go jump that cube. I take a circle and then I approach the chump that she did not allow anyone to do that.

And you know, I understood her, reasoning behind that. But still very daunting is something I'm not practicing on a regular basis. And also something that Darcy's not used to. , if it's not something that we're both doing routinely, he questions it and I'm already naturally questioning it.

What is her reasoning for that? Do you remember? I think the whole purpose of doing that is to be sort of uncomfortable. Mm hmm. Don't you think Taylor? You're not going to be able to do that on a horse.

So , why would you do that right now? It's also hard when you're standing around the whole group goes and then you have to go from basically just standing there. Yeah, exactly. Cause sometimes you use the circle to wake up your horse or wake up yourself. Which I understand, but yes, , the idea is to make you uncomfortable.

And because she has us do this with the size of jumps, she's like, , these jumps are 18 inches. Right. Your horse can go over that at a walk. So , there's no reason to do that giant circle. I've also heard her mention that, think about all the extra circles you're doing out there.

Say the ground's really hard. She says, that's just more wear and tear on your horse's legs. Yeah. Why, do that when you don't need the circle? Yeah. The ground was very hard and Yeah. And especially with the Maryland summer that we've been having, the ground is atrocious.

It is like concrete here. We've just had no rain. So like, , I've been sick for a while, but even if I had been, well, we wouldn't have been jumping. It's too much wear and tear. So , I understood the circle sentiment with trying to save your horse's legs a little bit.

That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So other than not circling, was there anything else that you and that you recall that you and Darcy really struggled with these kind of smaller gymnastic, funky line type exercises? And, and if so, how did loosen to help you to work through that? Yeah, the toughest one was definitely [00:18:00] there's that incredibly angled diagonal line.

Cause from the side, it looks absolutely bananas. Yeah. And I'm such a planner. Like I'm the person who walks their cross country course three times, even if I'm tired. , I want to know where every teeny tiny blade of grass is. And so as I'm looking at this angled line, I have no way to prep for it in my mind.

And I don't really know what the right line is until I'm facing it. , I turned, hopefully I've made a good turn. And I'm staring down the line trying to show Darcy where to go. And we've done lots of angled lines. Definitely not an angled two stride like we were doing. We haven't done anything like that.

And kind of with that, the way I approached it was just keep my leg on. Show Darcy that I do want to go over this line in a very different way. Yeah. Than we normally do. He's, very smart. He's almost too smart for his own good. But the first time we entered the line. He goes over the first one, he goes over the second one perfectly, but it was that third one.

He's like, oh, normally there's not a third one. We do mom , but you want me to go You're not at that level . Right, exactly. He's like, whoa, there. , like I said, he's very smart like that. And , I felt him wiggle thinking like, oh, she doesn't want to go over that. We don't normally do that.

Even when you gonna go out left, like she doesn't wanna do that extra jump and all like. No, no, I do. Let's go. And he was like, okay. And this, what I'm like explaining in my mind, this all happens within a split second. And , this was the video that you took of me as I was going away on this, on the line and you kind of see him kind of his left shoulder kind of out to the left before we go over that last one.

And, I was proud of ourselves , in that moment. Cause that means I kept my left leg on. Cause we went over and made it to the other side. It's really cool to hear how Lucinda is able to, without overtaxing the horse and rider, but she's able to recreate these mental situations that you can really find yourself out on cross country.

Even if you walk the course three times, it's not always going to ride exactly like you think, or you get tired, or you have a stop. Something we were talking about in our last episode about your mental, fortitude and how you have to change plans and keep thinking all the time. So it seems like she's really keen on, enabling you to be able to make those quick changes.

 It really worked pretty cool. Yeah, no, absolutely. Her exercises, they make you think. They make the horse think. They make the rider think. And that was, just a cool experience in itself. Not, that, our normal training doesn't include,

kind of mind bogglers, but in that moment, there's auditors, there's people watching, like I said, I fall off all the time. And so I'm like, please, can I not be the person who falls off at this clinic? And so all that goes through your mind. And so your best defense mechanism is, what's the best way for me to get to the other side?

And so the exercise, just made us both think a lot and it was good and I was proud of us. And we kept doing, more weird lines and more jumps like that throughout the rest of the clinic and some trotting jumps as well. So it was consistently asking Darcy to try something new, try something different.

And he was so willing, he was so game. And that was one of the things that Lucinda was really impressed with, with him. Cause I told her, Hey, I've only been riding for three to four years. , I'm very late to the game. And she was like, Oh wow. I would Niamher, I would have Niamher been able to tell that.

And that's not because I'm a really good rider. She says, your horse is fantastic. She's like, , he's just completely poised to take you through everything. And I was like, I know he is. He's amazing like that. And yeah, that was one of the other nice moments of the clinic was talking with her about Darcy about that.

I feel like she came into the clinic with. a little bit of an ax to grind because it was right after Kentucky, . And there were so many stops that had happened at the The four star coffin. And I think that the exercise of having that angled line with one jump in, then a little bounce or whatever that was in between or one stride to like a third fence almost recreates the mental.

Factor of riding a coffin where you want to ride a line. What happens if you get a weird jump in? What happens if your horse, stumbles over the first fence. Now, what do you do? You've got this middle element. How do you deal with that? How do you stay focused and straight?

And then, okay. Then that went, okay, now you got to jump out. And it was really funny because , she just kept on bringing it up. And I think she like would have just loved to have coached riders through that element if she could have, but she, I think by creating these like small versions of technical exercises, you're preparing your horse for the bigger questions, like half coffin that you might see on novice, or maybe a full coffin that you might see on training and these related distances and being able to think on your feet.

and act when your horse gets wiggly or off its line or like Emily said, you know, the jump doesn't jump the way that you walked. It is what makes a really good independent thinking rider and a good independent thinking horse. And I think that's the thing she really wants us to see that, like, can the horse and rider do it when it goes wrong or when it doesn't feel perfect.

Yeah, because so much of this has all been such a learning process for me, , I feel like when I first started schooling cross country, I thought I had to jump every jump, like it was show jump. Right. I thought I had to.

Really hit everything in stride. I thought it was all about that, but the more I rode cross country, the more events I did, the more schooling I did. And as time passed, I realized it has nothing to do with any of that. It's about, thinking on your feet, being scrappy when you need to be scrappy and understanding how your horse is feeling in those moments and how to communicate to him, , Oh, this is what we need to do.

Yeah. We had a really weird jump in, but we're going to take a bigger turn out here and then we'll make it over the next element. Yeah. I have such a stronger [00:24:00] appreciation, for appreciating the scrappiness more and then, the need to just be able to , think on your feet well and and be properly reactive.

When, the fence doesn't jump to your expectations. When you have a horse like Darcy and and you have a horse that has a lot of experience, they're quick to tell on you.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. Just because their experience doesn't mean they're just going to do it. Right. Oh yeah. And that's been one of the greatest parts of Darcy for me is, yeah, he can do it all, but he's not the type of packer where I can just sit there and he's going to go.

Now, that's how I initially learned when I first started riding cross country is I was, on this adorable paint horse who would go Over anything I pointed into, whether I had my leg on or if I was straight or not. And I quickly learned that Darcy, I couldn't do that anymore. he'll throw me a bone. He'll take a jump on a bad stride. He's honest. But if I'm massively crooked, if I haven't convinced him that that jump or that ditch is what we're going over, he won't go. And that has been the heavy source of, anytime I do one of my famous slow falls is a miscommunication like that.

And so he has forced me , to be a better rider on so many levels that even in the moments where , I just want to throw up my hands where I'm sitting on the ground, staring up at him saying, you couldn't just have given me that. I know I'm not perfect, but you couldn't have given me that.

Like later on, I'm like, nah, that was good. That was a learning experience. I needed that reminder. Yeah. He's really great for that. Going back to where you were talking about kind of learning about really like what cross country riding is about. It reminded me of eons ago, my coach, he was simultaneously not a man of many words, but he could talk for a really long time about things.

But somebody asked him once what his plan was for going for the cross country course, you know, the next day or whatever event we were at. And it was probably an advanced level course. So he's like, well, I'm going to get on my horse. We're going to go into the start box. We're going to wait for the countdown, leave the start box.

We're going to jump the first jump with the red flag on our right and our white flag. And he did that for every jump on the course. He's like, we're going to keep the red flag on the right, the white flag on the left. Then we're going to jump the next fence. And it was so funny because of the way like He broke it down, made it sound so simple, but really in essence, that is what you have to do.

Yes, , those are the requirements to get around the course. Whoever asked him the question was expecting a much more technical and detailed answer about the entire thing. And he like went through the whole course like that with a totally straight face. And I was just like, Oh my God.

That's amazing. That's amazing. So, anyway. So what kind of takeaways did you have at the end of your session with Lucinda? Did you notice any strengths or weaknesses in your partnership with Darcy?, I was so excited with how the day went. , Darcy literally did not put one foot wrong for the entire clinic.

Okay. . And. He was definitely the star of our group. , he took everything in stride. And it was, just one of those memorable writing days. And I wasn't able to do day two, but I was, so excited in that moment to take on some of the more serious cross country stuff we were planning to do.

 Everything had felt so confident going through the weird lines, the small jumps, even trotting the weird jumps and the skinnies, because I mean, I knew this conceptually, but what was solidified in my mind was that if I truly properly show Darcy what the goal is in the moment, I approach something with confidence.

I show him, yes, this is what I want to do. He's going to go and he's going to go beautifully. And it was just solidified in my mind, that attention detail I need to have. With riding every fence, you know, not for a moment, taking any moment for granted.

And I was definitely disciplined with keeping that mindset throughout the clinic. And I was just like, Oh wow. Imagine if I could be disciplined enough to do that around an entire cross country course. And so that was just really encouraging. And I was, as you guys saw me, I was just.

beyond myself with how perfect Darcy was and just how happy, happy and willing he was just to take me through all those different types of exercises. With, , perfectly pricked ears, the equivalent, the equivalent of a horsey smile on his face. Yes, exactly. And for listeners, You'll see in the photographs, but this horse jumps with his little front feet and knees, like his knees are his eyeballs.

His little hooves are out there. He's so cute. And he is such a determined expression on his face. The fact that Lucinda loved him, I'm sure she would have loved him even if he wasn't an off track thoroughbred. Not surprising at all. And your partnership just shines through. It's really, really sweet to hear you talk about them.

I could gush about him all day. , he's just the light of my life. And I love my little Superman jumper. And I promise I'm going to do it this Halloween. I'm dressing us up as Superman with capes and all, he's going to have the , bright blue sleazy on with the Superman S on his chest.

And we're going to do a jump course and a hundred percent going to video and photograph it all. You should come up to do plantation for their starter trial for Halloween. Everybody dresses up. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, it's really fun. And Niamh makes costumes. Oh yeah, I make costumes. Get on it. Oh my god.

You do everything. I love it. Like I said, I like to get into things. Okay, well. I love that. Well, switching gears Taylor and I were texting a few weeks ago because we're basically besties now.

And I was telling her about my experience with an animal communicator. And before everyone turns the podcast off, I was a complete skeptic. I have had friends that have done this before and I just was very [00:30:00] unsure. However, a dear friend of mine who is a very serious person, serious competitor, did this as like a last ditch effort with a difficult horse she had in for training and the stuff that she told me kind of blew my mind.

And so. I did a session with this woman and then told Taylor and then immediately Taylor was like, okay, I got to do this with Darcy cause I really feel like he's going to have some strong opinions to share. So we're going to unpack that with her. Now. Emily, do you have any thoughts? I'm just laughing because, okay, little insight here.

Niamhe and I usually write up like some notes, you know, to go by. And Niamhe happened to, it. alter this one to say, Emily, chime in with some thoughts of animal communicators as though I'm some, like, I don't even know. What does that say about it? No, I just meant like, you would, do you have an opinion about animal communicators?

Do you think they're BS? Do you think they're like cool? Yeah. You know, like I'm something that I guess, interesting fact about me. I have Polish background, actually, Taylor, I believe you do too. Yeah. Which I don't know if really relates, but there's a lot of like on the, my father's side of the family, there's a lot of Thoughts of, I don't know what the term is really like spirituality clairvoyance, that sort of thing.

And so I do think that this exists. I am a skeptic and I've Niamher done it. I would like to do it, but I haven't. So I still have a healthy dose of skepticism that somebody can tell you over the phone what your horse is thinking. But I am dying to hear what you found out, Taylor. Yeah, I came into this definitely with some skepticism, but I just want it all to be real.

All I want to do is know what's going on in Darcy's head. And so I'm also coming in with this just excitement to want to know, but yes, , I'm a person who just lives in logic. And so yes, a hundred percent came with skepticism, but when I talked with Niamh about her experience and , she explained to me how she found this person.

I was like, okay, you know what, it is a hundred percent worth, I absolutely want to know. And. You know, Niamh, everything you shared with me some of it really floored me. And so, while I was excited for this experience, I was also nervous. You were. I remember you were like, I don't, he might have too much to say.

I was like, I don't know if I want to know what he thinks about me. Exactly. Exactly. Would you stop falling off, please? Mom, hang on for the love of God. , I was like a girl in middle school who was like, what does he think about me? Oh my God. Well, so did you come up with questions ahead of time and a plan of what you wanted to ask her?

And how did your session go? Because when I spoke with her, she spent about the first 15 to 20 minutes, just telling me what she was picking up from him. And then I started to ask questions. Yeah, planned a bunch of questions. I actually, , kind of what you mentioned before, Emily, I I was really surprised by the fact that she would be able to tell me just from a phone call with, what Darcy was thinking.

So I was like, well, let me leave work a bit early. Let me drive out to the barn. And I actually stood in the field with Darcy while I had her on the phone. Cause I was like, maybe the connection will be stronger this way. Yeah. Like, will I see Darcy react to moments when I ask questions or when he says something that's opinionated or wild.

So yeah, I was out in the field with him on the phone with her. And , I would say it was probably a little back and forth. , because I was so new to this experience, I kind of wanted to just let her lead and see what. What she had to say and I would ask questions if I had questions but things that she went into, she ended up covering most of my questions, even without me prompting.

Oh, wow. So can you give us like a little highlight reel of what kind of blew you away in the experience? Cause Taylor has not shared any of this with me. I specifically was like, I want to save it for the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a group text going with. A bunch of my friends at the barn who were all waiting to hear, what he said.

The first thing I texted everybody, I was like, my horse is opinionated. He has thoughts. He had demands. Oh boy. This horse knows what he wants in life and knows what he likes and knows what he dislikes and is not afraid to say it, which, just getting that very direct feedback in a way didn't surprise me.

When I would imagine or picture what Darcy's voice or persona might be like, it was exactly how I imagined it. The animal communicator related, , how he was thinking about something was just exactly what I pictured. And you shared a lot of sweet things with me about your session.

And like, I, my heart, it just made my heartbeat, but you know what, one of the reasons why I was so nervous, because you love me. Oh, that's why I was like, Oh my gosh. Like I like Gem, I can't wait to meet Gem because I, my gosh, she just sounds like the sweetest soul in the world. And Darcy's a sweet soul too.

Look at Emily, look at Emily's face. I love him, when I was in Canada, Emily was like, I stole your horse from you. You know how you do that with, treats. No, like he makes the meanest mare faces. He's in the first stall in the barn. He's got such a funny mare face.

He used to give me such, crap. I'd walk by, he'd try to like reach out and grab me or whatever, but I had to go in and, , check on his legs, give him a little grooming, etc. And so, My filly , has a little baby mouth and so she doesn't like the ends of the carrots because they're too thick for her.

So, Jem did us a solid. But now Jem whinnies [00:36:00] when he sees me and Niamh is jealous. He like squeals at her. It's really cute. We were both standing in the barn aisle the other day and he was like, He was like, oh my gosh. , go away Niamh. This one doesn't ride me. Beat it, mom. Anyways, Kohan Taylor.

Sorry. Oh my God. That's amazing. That's me. But when you see Gem and I together, , you will see that like, it's a crazy relationship. Oh my God. , I'm so excited to meet him and see you guys together. And yeah, like I said, everything you told me about your session, just my heart. Oh, but I was so nervous cause I was like, that's not, I, I like, I know I've Niamher I know I haven't spoken with Darcy, but.

I know he's not going to be as sweet as Jem was. Aww. , not that Darcy's not sweet, but just how warm and fuzzy some of the things that Jem had to say, Niamh, I was just like, that's just not Darcy. And because I, know him so well. He's going to have things to say.

He absolutely had things to say. Some things that, , I couldn't help but laugh. So one of the first areas she talked about was that she said he was drawing her to his right pelvis area in terms of just areas that get sore. And these were one of my questions. I wanted to know, , what areas kind of bother him on a regular basis so I could better either target it with my red light pad or, When he gets magna wave.

Mm-Hmm. You know, just those areas. And and you know, as she was kind of going through the different areas that bothered him she just pauses, for a moment and just all of a sudden she goes, oh yes, he says More magna wave. More magna wave. Yes, you can get more magna wave. He demands magna wave

and just repeated mag several times. Well, I will sign you up for more Magna Wave. Yes, your majesty. So funny. He's like, yes, more Magdalene, please. Another moment that I thought was so funny was she, she mentioned that he was drawn, he kept saying, How much he loves carrot cake.

And she asked me, have you ever given him carrot cake before? And I was like, no, no, I haven't. I tried to give him my donut or a cookie or I Niamher give him carrot cake before. And she's like, well, he keeps signaling that he loves these carrot cakes.

And I thought about it and I said, Oh my God, the German muffins. That's the only treat I give him because ever. So those things are massively expensive. When I got him, I happened to have a small bag of them. And so I gave him some German muffins.

This is the day after I bought him. And then when we ran out of that small bag, I ended up feeding him just some normal horse treats and he was so disappointed by them. He chewed them slowly. You could just feel his disappointment. And so ever since I was like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'll get the bucket of German muffins.

And so ever since it's a bucket of German muffins and he gets four or five, every time I see him. And so I was like, Oh my God, he calls them carrot cakes. That's really cute. That is so funny. I had a horse that, also became overly obsessed with those to the point where if I didn't have them, he would be like upset with me and mad.

And I was like, Oh my God, I've created a literal monster with these German horse muffins. Oh yeah. There was such a difference for when he gets his German muffins versus if I have the moments where I've run out or I forgot to bring them. And I give him like,

not a totally cheap horse treat, but a good one! Like, what's wrong with a good one? He is disappointed. Chews it slowly. He's It's just disdain. Yeah, you can just feel him shaking his head as he's eating this disappointing treat. I'll eat it, but I don't have to like it. We do have a horse at the barn.

Won't she only eat peeled carrots? Isn't that what's her name?

Or do you have to cut the end off? There's something where I walked by. I was like , wait, are you really feeling old carrots? Yeah. It's something like that. Yeah. Gemma will literally any and all treats, but he does have favorites. My dad sends polo mints from England for him. And I have a friend that goes to London all the time and she brings them back for me.

She's got like a whole stash because I'm out of them, but he will pretty much eat anything. Well, so what did what did the communicator say about how he felt about you? Or did you ask that question? So, that was the last thing I asked we talked for a while.

We talked for like an hour and 20 minutes. Yeah. And. Yeah. The last thing I was just, she's like, is there anything you want to ask? And it wasn't even a question I had. I was like, , just, can you share with him just how much I love him? Can you make sure he knows that?

And that there's nothing I wouldn't do for him. And that brings me such joy. And I just, I went on and on and on for like 30 seconds about how much I loved him. And so she was silent for a bit. Cause I guess she was sharing this with him and then she comes back and she He says, well, duh, why do you think I picked you?

Oh my god. After I gushed my heart, I got tears in my eyes. That is so cute. And it was, and it was honestly, . It was exactly how think he would, yeah. How I'm reacting to something like that. And so remember how I said earlier that I wanted to be in the field with him as I made this phone call.

Cause I wanted to see if he reacted and into any moments as we went through this. And the entire phone conversation. He just happily munched on his grass and he was chill and he was just Happy camper munching on his grass, but then in this moment as I gushed my heart out and he says Why do you think I picked you?

He lifts his head up from the grass and shoves it into my chest and just starts nuzzling me and I just broke, I just lost it. I just lost it at that point. I just grab his face, which he Niamher lets me do. Yeah. He's not a cuddly horse. And he lets me like hug his face for like five seconds before he's like, okay, [00:42:00] back to grass.

And in that moment, I was like, Oh, oh, wow. That was my moment where the tears. Oh yeah. I cried for like at least 10 minutes of my call with her. So yeah, that was when the floodgates opened. Cause I was, I was just floored. The entire call, we're talking about him.

We're laughing about stuff. I was petting him. I was even fly spraying him out there just in that moment where He's like, duh, I think I picked you and he's like, all right, let me show her some affection. Lifts his hat up, snuggles my chest and lets me hug his face. He's like, I better get over there.

She's a mess. I think that, yeah, exactly. , here you go, mom. I prom, I promise. I know you love me, mom. Stop embarrassing me. He's like, that's worth at least one German horse muffin and a magna wave. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. , and there she goes back to the car to get the bucket of German muffin.

Right. He's like, we're not doing any dressage this week, right? Wink wink. Oh, funny. Funny. You say that. Funny. You say that. Do you know what he said? One of his favorite things to do was? Was it dressage? He said dressage. Oh. Which , he's always very willing in dressage.

I always considered him a champion at tolerating dressage. He's quite good at it. But that was when we started talking about the work we did, that was what she said he showed her. And specifically. He showed her the extended trot. He said he loves to show off when he flicks his toes. And it's so funny, because when we work Dressage at home, he Niamher does this.

 He's willing, he does the work, but it is only when we enter the the white rails at shows, does he start to flick his feet like a little Grand Prix, Grand Prix prancing horse. It's the funniest thing. It's It's one of my favorite things to watch him do is when he starts to flick his toes.

He's like, I'm on stage. Yeah, , he knows it's time. He's so cute. And he flicks his little toes out. But she said , he likes to show off his extended trot and flick his toes. And that's, that's a very specific thing he will do. That's very specific at shows.

Only at shows. And I told her, I'm surprised that's what he had to say. He just seems to love jumping so much. And you know what he said? He said, Oh, I know, I know. I'm good at jumping. That's obvious. That's like, that was it. Oh, he just figured that was a given.

He was like, Oh, I'm a jumper. Specifically, love doing it with the water is what he said. Yeah, he loves, he loves water. He loves to play in the water. I want to take him swimming wheNiamher I can. Oh, I want to take Jem swimming so bad. Except for. He, when we cross rivers and stuff, he will find the deepest part of any water crossing and be up to his belly.

And then he'll put his entire head under the water like a snorkel. Which is really funny because like he does not really enjoy having his face hosed off. But he will stick his entire head under the water up to his eyes, like with his eyes covered. So his ears will just be sticking out. And then like scoop up the water like that.

I'm like, what are you doing? I'm afraid he's gonna , try to swim underwater with me. Yeah, I've taken him to the river and like, we got moderately deep. He didn't put his whole head in, but he did stick his whole snout in there. Yeah. Blue bubble.

There is that place in Maryland, it's called something Grove. It's on the Chesapeake, right? It's on the Chesapeake and you can go there and stay overnight and they have like wine night and fire pits and you can go swimming in the lake and. Maybe we should all get together and do that.

That would be really fun. I am putting that on the list for places to go as soon as I get the trailer. I am. Yeah, I am all over. I'm all over that. Yes. , that was another thing that he had this, , he likes when we go off property and goes on it on gone adventures. Oh, that's really sweet.

Yeah. And I wanted to ask her and get his thoughts on cause we had just moved to that new barn. Yeah. Yeah. So we had been there for two months, maybe not even like a month and a half, and so I was curious to see how he was feeling. And he had nothing to say about, he had nothing to say about the change.

 It didn't seem to phase him enough to share any thoughts on that. Yeah. Except he did share, so , he's out 24 seven right now. He's in a field with my trainer's old FBI horse. Who really just, keeps to himself. And then this baby three year old, who is so silly and adorable.

And so this three year old, he he had a bit of a laceration on top of his head. It's healed now, but he caught his head or bumped his head on something and really tore it up, you know, typical baby horse stuff, learning how to be in a field. But this was another cool moment.

So close by us. Otter, Otter loves Darcy. So if I'm out in the field with Darcy, Otter is pretty close. He loves Darcy. And Darcy mentioned that and this is specifically what he said. And this is not without me prompting or anything like that, or sharing information.

He said, the young horse in the field bumps his head on things.

Yep, and right as that happened, I don't know, it was just weird Darcy was, yeah, the young horse, he bumps his head on things the young horse, Otter, lifts his head and looks up at me in that moment and makes direct eye contact with me. Oh my god. Yeah, it was, and like, Otter also had just been happily munching away, doing his thing, but when we were talking about him, he lifted, he just, and he stared at me.

It was, it was really cool. So. That's really cool. Is it safe to say that you're a believer?

Pretty close to a believer. I think you have to have a healthy bit of skepticism in there. I just, yeah, I can't help but just be a little teeny teeny bit, but it was the moment there. The moment where Darcy picked his head up and like nuzzled me. And [00:48:00] then there was one, there was one more very specific moment that I'll share that also got me going, really got me thinking, because I did not share any information about Darcy's new barn or environment or what was around him.

But Darcy also had to say so Darcy's field is next to this backyard where some dogs run around. And , Darcy said that he enjoys the company of the dog who runs the fence line. And the dog that runs the, is this yellow, almost white, husky, shepherd mix dog. And this dog , when we're there and he's out, he just, he runs the fence line.

And it's right next to Darcy's field. And Darcy loves dogs. Darcy loves dogs more than horses. And so just to hear him specifically talk about the dog who runs the fence line, that's right next to his field. I was like, Oh wow, that's, I was on the phone with her and I said, , that's bear. He's talking about bear.

Like that's literally a yellow dog who runs the fence line. , it was just a lot. Yeah., I was really amazed by that. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm a believer. I'll say it. I'm a believer. I've been having a Reiki person come out and work on my horse and she's she's a Reiki specialist, but she's getting her equine massage certification.

And Jem is so in tune to the Reiki and he really likes me to be there when she works on him. She said she worked on him twice when I wasn't there. And it's a similar, so the, the woman that we both use is also a Reiki specialist. And I think it's just these. Animals and humans that kind of vibrate on a really high level, like their energy just has to go somewhere watching her work with him is like only reinforced what I thought about him when I use the animal communicator and the Reiki girl that works on him like has actually said some of the same things that the animal communicator said.

Which is wild. Yeah. After having such a positive experience with the animal communicator, I've thought about maybe trying Reiki for him as well. Cause now, because I know this particular animal communicator also does Reiki. And it was, such a positive experience.

I'm so glad. He was just so relaxed and content the whole time and just, yeah, those, several moments that you learn fun details and fun details that just, that just, it would be impossible for anybody to know that we're sharing. I was just really floored, I was just really floored in those moments.

And I think we all want to grow with our relationships with our horses and want to know what they think of us. And I don't know, for me, it's just more of a fun curiosity kind of thing. But if at the end of the day it just makes you feel warm and fuzzy, then , that's Awesome too, you know yeah, so to kind of piggyback on you talking about your move and, and some changes that have been going on, you kind of posted a sort of cryptic status update on Facebook a few weeks ago.

I'm just taking a step back from doing one day events. And I really respect for you for putting that out there because I think we all feel so much pressure from the outside all the time. Or we feel it from just our, barnmates or, , people that we surround ourselves with. You know, why aren't you doing this?

Why aren't you doing that? Why don't you come to this? And having to make those decisions and, and decide what's best for yourself or your horse or both of you , is really brave. And so I commend you for doing that, but can you just give us a little insight on what triggered the decision and what steps you've been making with Darcy since then?

Sure, sure. Yeah. You know, coming into inventing, almost four years ago. I came into eventing because I saw riders do cross country and that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to gallop through fields. I wanted to gallop over jumps. That's something I've wanted to do since I was a young kid.

This has been a dream long in the making and I just I didn't have the resources and time to grow up being a part of that world. And so that's why, I had to wait until I was 30 before, I had my, life more organized. I had time and finally could, really dedicate myself toward pursuing that.

And, so I kind of came in with this very idealistic, as we all do with dreams and things we care about deeply. I knew it was going to be a lot of hard work. I knew it was going to take time. And I'm not a very patient person when it comes to wanting to achieve or do things that I love, that's definitely one of my big personal flaws is patience.

And, for a while, you know, I was at a barn that was just very heavy, in competition, competing every weekend, which is, absolutely fantastic, full of other adult amateurs like myself, just looking to, just go out and have a good time. Yeah. And I bought Darcy from that barn and.

When you buy a horse that's made and as nice as Darcy is, I think I got swept up into the idea that, oh, I have this unbelievably nice horse. I should be competing him as much as possible. You're all the same. That's a weird pressure that I think is so unique to buying a horse that has as much experience.

Yeah. And , it just, even like completely subconsciously it was like, Oh, I have this nice horse. I must go compete every other weekend during the season and get us out there. And, for a year, I did that as, as much as possible.

Once I had Darcy and you know, I feel like I was just putting ourselves out there without really kind of thinking and being present in the, why are we here, why are we doing this? And what started happening was there just more and more shows that I would spend the entire day completely just.

A big ball of anxious worrying about, like I said, I'm a super planner. having to do all three phases in one day. I mean, that's overwhelming for anyone. I think I make it even more overwhelming for myself because I like to have every teeny tiny detail planned.

And not just on the cross country course with show jump and with dressage as [00:54:00] well. Like, how do I warm up? How do I go around the ring before I go in? I truly think I overthink everything to the nth degree which can be good at times, but it's terrible for my anxiety.

Yeah. And, sure. After we'd crossed the cross country finish line. It'd be this big relief of, Oh, we did it. And there's that incredible feeling of accomplishment in that, and you absolutely can't deny that. But I just, I started realizing, especially going into this season I think I've only done two events this season.

And both times I started realizing that I'm spending most of these days completely miserable because I'm worrying about things. I'm overthinking. I'm not enjoying my time at all with my horse. And that's why we're here. That's why we do this. And, I'm so lucky to have a horse who's not reactive to.

To those moments where I have high anxiety. He's a pretty cool cucumber. He's a cool cucumber at shows. So he's been my rock in these moments. But the first event I did this season I just remember as we're approaching the cross country finish line, I had, had such a day of just high anxiety.

And just worrying about everything that I did. I didn't even feel that, moment of accomplishment when we crossed the finish line and we've completed all three phases. And it was kind of like being hit with a ton of bricks for me.

Cause I was like, wait a second, I've put all this time and money into doing this because I supposedly love this, but that was not a fun day. This wasn't fun. And that was kind of my first moment of saying, Hey, this isn't fun. And. Any time with anything in life if it's something that's supposed to be bringing you joy in any fashion, as soon as it starts to become not fun, that's when you know a change needs to be made.

Maybe not a big change. Maybe it's a small change, but regardless, a change needs to happen. And so, I continued on. I I signed up for an event in June and the same thing happened that, I was excited leading up to the event. I was excited to take on the cross country course.

It was beefy a lot of fun obstacles. I was hardcore excited for it, even up to the night before I was even watching reruns of badminton in the nineties for the course that I was like a kid, on Christmas Eve, but as soon as we started driving to the venue that day. The anxiety took over and that, was truly the aha moment.

I said, okay. I need to reevaluate because this isn't fun because I'm not in a good mental state. I'm not going to give my horse a good ride. And that's not fair to him because he's working just as hard, if not more hard than I am in this. And, it's not fair for me to be, putting both of us through this.

 If I'm not in the right mental state to complete all three phases and kind of where I landed on you know, I spoke with a lot of good friends just kind of talked them through, what I'm feeling in the moment. And what I realized is that, you know, I thought about what are the times where I have the most fun in writing?

 What are those days? What are those moments? And it's the clinics. It's my lessons. It's when I go cross country schooling. And I said, well, what's so different from. those days versus , the competition days. And I was like, well, maybe, it's because I'm nervous.

I'm not going to place well, or we're going to do a refusal or, you know, we're not going to do well. And cause you know, I'm definitely a competitive person. I want to go out and do well. And initially I really, thought that's where the pressure was coming from, but that just, wasn't it.

Cause I just love galloping and going over the jumps. That's my pure joy. I do not care what place we come in. I just love going through the course. That's my happy place. And the more I talked through with folks, and just understanding how much I enjoy my lessons and schooling and, traveling around to interesting clinics, I began to land on the fact.

I can't handle doing all three phases in one day. I love doing them individually because what do I love about my lessons in the clinics? You focus on something and you focus on that one element. It's, it's very hard to do three, such completely different phases with one horse, even on three separate days.

 You know, from dressage to show jumped across country, it's three completely different styles of riding. It required, this sport is hard. It requires a lot and, and just the more I, thought about that more in my experience with it. Like the idea of going to a jumper show tomorrow, exciting.

I love it. And I only have to think about, , doing something in the show jumping, going to a straight dressage show. I only have to think about. Memorizing a couple of tests and writing that I don't have to think about cross country. I don't have to think about how I ride show jump and just thinking through all that is kind of how I landed on, well, maybe one day events aren't right for me at this point.

I can't, my anxiety can't handle doing all that in one day and that's okay. Yeah. And that's what I've been helping myself come to like, that's totally fine. It doesn't matter how talented my horse is. Or how many events my peers around me are going to. It's, about me and Darcy and fun that we're having.

And, he's so great to me. He would do anything. I asked, any, activity, event, competition, he's always game. I do not deserve him for that. But that's kind of , me taking a step back from competing right now. I'm getting us a horse trailer and we're just gonna go out and have fun and, you know, just bop around, do different things that we find interesting.

And just because we came into this goal as wanting to be inventors, , we're not inventors because we don't compete. Exactly. You know, we're all horsemen and horsewomen at the end of the day. And That's what matters and that's, that's what I'm here to focus on kind of going forward.

Sorry. I know that was very long explanation. That's okay. I think this piggyback so well on the last episode that [01:00:00] just came out because, you know, Kathy Goodman that teaches the pressure proof clinics, one of the, her big takeaways was , if you're not having fun, then what are you having?

And for me, that's just like , it kind of hits you like a ton of bricks. And, also it's just so easy to get into this like trap of comparing yourself to other people, and feeling like you should be somewhere else. But at the end of the day, it's an individual journey of you and your horse.

And your horse does not care what he's doing, he cares that you come out and you feed him German horse muffins. Clearly, that's everything else is just gravy. So I feel like all the other stuff that you do, and , you're making a decision for your own mental health. And I wish that more riders spoke really openly about their mental health, because , as soon as I saw your post, I was like, Oh man, I had this just rush of just solidarity headspace all the time.

And I think I can appear very together and everything's fine, but internally there's a hurricane going on. And, I think you have to just make those decisions for yourself and try to find ways for you to push yourself without taking yourself to the brink every single time.

So I really respect you , for making that decision. Thank you. I've spent too many years of my life not talking openly about, mental health and things like this I think generations are, opening up about it now, but for too many years of my life, I didn't talk about it and, definitely suffered more than I needed to.

And so that's, why I decided to post what I did in hopes that somebody else would read it. And if one person reads it and , maybe it's a light bulb for them. Maybe it makes them feel, less Oh, it's not just me who feels this way. Part of the battle with mental health is someone thinking, Oh, this has only happened to me.

Oh yeah. I mean, I maybe talk about my mental health in general too much, some might say, but I always like to say that the more light you expose it to, the weaker it becomes. And then if you stuff it down and you don't share it, it just gets stronger and stronger.

And so I feel like by talking about it, you're exposing it to the light and making it weaker. Okay. So that's the reason that I speak really openly about it. So that's a beautiful way to put it. Really. 'cause Yeah. The, the more you don't expose, like you said, it's gonna fester inside, it's gonna feel, it's going to get stronger.

It's going to make you feel worse. Yeah. But when you release some of that, what you're feeling, what you're thinking when you release some of that. That's literally weight off your shoulders, you know, we all put so, so much time and money and effort into this sport that we love so much.

 I do this sport for my mental health, . That's like, that's like fun. of , no, I do this because it's really good for my mental health. Also, my mental health is suffering because I'm doing this. Yes, exactly. And that last competition I did was literally the pinnacle of that.

I'm like, Ooh, I'm going today to go live my dreams and all my joy. And like, , Oh no, , this is destroying my mental health. I cannot. Very weird, very weird cycle, , I appreciate you so much letting me talk about it on your podcast because. I just you know, I'm, I'm able to talk about it because I heard somebody else talk about it.

Exactly. We really do hope that one of the big takeaways about this podcast is just finding that solidarity amongst other riders and horse people and realizing that you're not alone in your journey and just hearing those voices I think just makes you feel.

a little bit more solid in a way. So Emily, do you want to wrap up this episode now that we got into the heavy topics? No, all good. Emily's used to it with me. All good. This was a great discussion. I am mentally wondering how I'm going to write the episode notes. Yes. We've covered some very diverse ground here, but I think it's all really cool.

So thank you, Taylor, again, for joining us. We love following along with your journey and we will also post a lot of fun photos from the clinic and of your awesome horse and you when this airs. Awesome. Thank you so much guys. Always so much fun talking with you. Absolutely. Taylor, thanks again for joining us.

If you liked what you heard today, please give us a five star review on Apple podcasts. You can follow OTTB on tap on Instagram, Facebook, and Tik TOK and reach out to us with interview candidates and topic suggestions at OTTB on tap. com. We love hearing from you. Bye.